Other peoples work

[JohnW2]

All I'm saying is I work to better standards ...

I presume that you mean that you work to standards which you personally consider to be 'better'? If so, that's fine.

The thing is; Rocky obviously doesn't think it's OK either.

Maybe, but he hasn't really expressed much of an opinion.

All he has really said is that he does use banjos with steel boxes (without saying whether inside or outside the boxes) because he "... always assumed it increased the brass to steel contact as opposed to not using one" (which seems to imply that steel would be within his 'path').

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I presume that you mean that you work to standards which you personally consider to be 'better'? If so, that's fine.
Maybe, but he hasn't really expressed much of an opinion.

All he has really said is that he does use banjos with steel boxes (without saying whether inside or outside the boxes) because he "... always assumed it increased the brass to steel contact as opposed to not using one" (which seems to imply that steel would be within his 'path').

Kind Regards, John

And he also posted the pictures in the first place. Now call me daft to think this but I can't think of a reason to post pics if you don't think there's an issue.

 

[JohnW2]

And he also posted the pictures in the first place. Now call me daft to think this but I can't think of a reason to post pics if you don't think there's an issue.

Only he could (and hopefully will!) tell us his view.

His only actual initial comment related to the number of lugs on the one bolt - and he has so far not mentioned another way he would have preferred it to be done, nor has he commented on whether banjos, when used, should be inside or outside of a metal box.

Rocky ??

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Only he could (and hopefully will!) tell us his view.

His only actual initial comment related to the number of lugs on the one bolt - and he has so far not mentioned another way he would have preferred it to be done, nor has he commented on whether banjos, when used, should be inside or outside of a metal box.

Rocky ??

Kind Regards, John

When enclosures are outdoors I fit the banjos inside but dont drill the box.

As someone mentioned earlier there are other [more modern] ways of making connexions to SWA glands.

 

[SUNRAY]

I presume that you mean that you work to standards which you personally consider to be 'better'? If so, that's fine.
Kind Regards, John

I'm saying I work to higher standards which are expected by others and if I didn't I wouldn't have been offered anything like the excessive amount of work that I've had to reject.

 

[Simon35]

It's another safety standard that ISTR is mentioned in 7671, I dont work to 7671 so do not know it in depth.
What I am saying is that 60204 (another standard) specifically (afaik) tells me that bonding should all be from one point, and as many of these safety standards all sing from the same hymn sheet
I can't see 7671 being any different so asked the question - why would the CPC be any different?
If the cpc or bonding can all be from a single point then there is no other materials between them so it makes a better connection albeit having the single nut to hold them down.

If you don't have multiple points to connect to then you have to do what you can with what you have.
You I'm sure would do what you can with what you have when you have no other choice - we have all been there at some point

60204 is for safety of Machinery. You can't pick and choose bits and pieces as you like.

I'm not a hands on installer. One of my roles in the past has been the design and contracting out of industrial electrical installations. I would design to avoid such a shambles. Very familiar with electricians who are house bashers ending up on industrial sites. They stick like a sore thumb, and are quickly gone.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Simply moving the Banjo inside the enclosure gives this:

And all of a sudden there is no steel within the electrical path. What is so dificult about that?

I would expect to have the bolt by some means, firmly fixed in the box - a nut tightened under the point marked 'Banjo' in the above, with a star washer. You cannot always guarantee access to both faces of a box, to hold the 'Gutter bolt'..

 

[Jackrae]

I would expect to have the bolt by some means, firmly fixed in the box - a nut tightened under the point marked 'Banjo' in the above, with a star washer. You cannot always guarantee access to both faces of a box, to hold the 'Gutter bolt'..

If using loose bolts and you can get the bolt into position then you have access to its head. Surely a hex head would be much superior to a domed screw-slot head (where you might have insufficient access for a screwdriver) as you can then ensure correct torquing of the connection.

 

[SUNRAY]

If using loose bolts and you can get the bolt into position then you have access to its head. Surely a hex head would be much superior to a domed screw-slot head (where you might have insufficient access for a screwdriver) as you can then ensure correct torquing of the connection.

Of course a hex head is best but may I respecfully point you towards an extremely common situation:

The 2 banjos in the image are very clearly seen to be bolted with gutter bolts.

 

[Jackrae]

Indeed so but two wrongs don't make a right

 

[SUNRAY]

I would expect to have the bolt by some means, firmly fixed in the box - a nut tightened under the point marked 'Banjo' in the above, with a star washer. You cannot always guarantee access to both faces of a box, to hold the 'Gutter bolt'..

Cor blimey, star washer. not your average sparks then? I find it unbelievable sometimes how so many electricians never even use the washers supplied, let alone any special type.

Our technique does not usually include fixing the bolt to the enclosure as it has been found the bolt could turn while the second nut is tightened resulting in the bolt being lose. On panel back plates we drill and tap the plate, using a copper plated star washer screw the bolt in and tighten to the plate then another star washer and nut tightened. However this cannot be done with a panel enclosure or adaptable box.

 

[SUNRAY]

Indeed so but two wrongs don't make a right

Sadly many, if not most, electricians don't think a gutter bolt is wrong

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Sadly many, if not most, electricians don't think a gutter bolt is wrong

I was some way into the thread, before I twigged to what a 'gutter bolt' was. They are what I would call a galvanised roofing bolt - yuk!

 

[Jackrae]

And they've even used those bloody awful (not) square nuts

 

[JohnW2]

... I would design to avoid such a shambles. ...

Not that it's something I would ever be called upon to do in my life, for what it's worth, so would I - and, as I have said, I think that, unless completely impossible (because I space/whatever) the first step in that design process would be to specify larger boxes - after which consideration of the 'best' (in whoever's minds!) way of dealing with all the conductors/ connections (including the CPCs) would become more straightforward.

However, having said that, and as I've said a number of times [and again 'for what it's worth' (from an 'outsider') ], I would have no particular problem, electrically speaking, with what Rocky has illustrated.

Kind Regards, John