Part P loophole

[ban-all-sheds]

As the kitchen had already been certified (in March) I don't know why he needs it certifying again as I am just putting existing sockets back and more than likely adding some to an existing certified ring.

Adding sockets to an existing circuits is notifiable within a kitchen. As you've now got an open plan kitchen/diner, are any of these new sockets within 3m of the sink?

One last thing, sorry, above you say it IS contravention to run cables and have it visible for inspection and certification by someone else but then say it will be ok for the building inspector if someone does this?? Or have I got it all wrong??

No - the BCO will almost certainly take any certificate at face value, he just wants to finish your job and get on - the electrical certification will CHA....

 

[Screwed]

Sorry to go on but, What is considered "doing" the work. For instance, if the cables are run by me (for arguments sake although I wont do this) and the plug faces left off and the consumer unit left untouched, a certified spark then comes in to attach the sockets and wire the consumer unit, can he then certify it? This is just theoretical but if the answer is NO then how do electricians ever have apprentices etc?

Thanks again!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry to go on but, What is considered "doing" the work. For instance, if the cables are run by me (for arguments sake although I wont do this) and the plug faces left off and the consumer unit left untouched, a certified spark then comes in to attach the sockets and wire the consumer unit, can he then certify it?

He cannot issue an electrical certificate to say that he installed the cables, but he may well issue one to say that he inspected and tested them and found them to be compliant with the Wiring Regulations.

He cannot self-certify their installation as being compliant with the Building Regulations.

This is just theoretical but if the answer is NO then how do electricians ever have apprentices etc?

If he is the Qualified Supervisor for someone he employs, or for a fellow employee of the firm they work for, then he can self-certify the work for Building Regulations compliance (strictly speaking it is the firm that is registered and the firm that certifies compliance, which is OK as it is the firm which did the work).

 

[Screwed]

There will be sockets within 3m of a sink yes, so I will not be able to do these and then have them certified!?

Thanks, sorry for all the questions but this is a DIY forum and I just want to get it right!!

 

[mattylad]

contact the electrician that did the original job.

 

[Screwed]

Have tried but can't get hold of him so I need to get someone else. As they wont have run the wires they will only be able to certify the sockets and connection to consumer unit that they touch???

Is it just me or have they made this complicated for ordinary householders? What's to stop Joe Bloggs doing stuff to his house oblivious to these new rules have come in and finding out he has totally broken the law??

Cheers!!

 

[mattylad]

its not just you.

Its either got to be a big enough job to warrant informing LABC, you pay for a registered electrician to do it all for you or you ignore the need for any certification & DIY.

Unfortunately you cant because your doing other stuff.

 

[Stoday]

In the first draft of part P, put out for consultation, kitchens were not a special location. They became special locations later after concern was expressed over the capabilities (or lack of them) of kitchen fitters.

It would be ironic if the kitchen cowboys could, after all, avoid notification because a stripped out kitchen is no longer a kitchen as defined in the building regulations.

 

[GaryMo]

In the first draft of part P, put out for consultation, kitchens were not a special location. They became special locations later after concern was expressed over the capabilities (or lack of them) of kitchen fitters.

A kitchen is not a special location or a special installation - it's defined as a kitchen. Plain and simple.

 

[Stoday]

Thanks Garymo, you're right. My wording was sloppy.

That means that you can install ELV signalling cable in kitchens, although not ELV lighting circuits if the lights don't have an integral plug.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Holy heck, I didn't realise this thread would start such a discussion.

But take into account I'm not saying its an excuse to put in sub-standard wiring. I never install illegal wiring, I may install legal wiring illegally. But I'm not stupid enough to ever skimp on quality or good practice.