Party wall dispute with neighbor - what are my rights here

[^woody^]

There is normally an express or implied easement or right to drain roof water across a neighbour's attached roof and gutters. One neighbour can’t just block it off and expect the other to alter his roof.

Can you please explain this, as I want to reach out to my solicitors if they knew about any right the neighbour had to drain water into my garden.
I say this because when I look at other neighbours, this is not how some have done it. A lot of people drain their roof individually, if I didn't have a garage would the neighbour not have found a solution or are you suggesting the water would just be pouring towards my flank wall and causing damp issues ?


Also altering my roof is not the issue, its theirs which falls towards mine. Unfortunately, what makes it complicated is the party wall. If I however built a new wall, then they would have to sort out this problem by themselves, because at that point, it wouldn't stop my work, because I no longer have to deal with a party wall issue, and I can sue for damages.

Remember, this route would be costly for me and also for them, so it makes no sense going down this route for the sake or being reasonable.

It's just that.

 

[Ian H]

It’s a gutter running to the floor isn’t it? Rather than a downpipe into a proper gully.

 

[Notch7]

this route would be costly for me and also for them

I thought the developer paid for both party wall surveyors........

 

[John D v2.0]

I am a new owner, so its not correct to say that i am/was happy with it. I met it there (2 months ago), and when I saw it I was not happy with it at all.

it's the land, not the individual that things apply to, it's not like buying something brand new at the shop. Also your above statement makes no difference. You bought a house with an existing setup that you dislike, and you're then expecting all sorts based on the fact you're a new owner. Think about the neighbour's point of view, suddnly next door was sold and now someone new appeared and asking for all sorts. They probably just want a quiet life to be honest!

in terms of constructive ideas, just offer to pay for whatever works are deemed necessary and get on with your life. Being on good terms with your neighbours is way more valuable than a roof.

Hope that's some way useful (we had a similar situation although without any kind of disagreement and we paid the extra work on next door's roof without even getting it separately costed)

 

[platforminc]

The neighbour was the one who did the works and routed it to my garden.

It was a remediation for a leak into thier garage.

Does this change things?

It's just that.

When adjoining properties have shared services either from when built or from many years use, then a right can exist or be acquired to continue to use those services by one neighbour, and a responsibility by the other neighbour to allow continued use of those services. This is particularly the case when the enjoyment of the house (ie normal use) would rely on such services.

So one neighbour can expect to be able to continue to use say, the roofs, gutters and drains of a neighbour, and that neighbour must allow continued use. This is established property law.

If as you say the neighbour has altered the drainage, then that changes things. And if the neighbour has made up a new drainage outlet and this discharges into your property (even if there was a previous outlet doing this) then any previous rights could be cancelled. There is is no obligation for one neighbour to acept rainwater runnoff onto their land from neighbouring land.

 

[platforminc]

It’s a gutter running to the floor isn’t it? Rather than a downpipe into a proper gully.

Yes. About 1m from the ground on my side. Rusted metal with sharp edges

 

[Leofric]

Your neighbour has appointed a surveyor and you have appointed a surveyor to deal with the problem ,
so won't it be dealt with under The Party Wall Act

 

[geraldthehamster]

I thought the developer paid for both party wall surveyors........

Correct. The OP would bear the cost of any and all surveyors involved

 

[geraldthehamster]

"Their"

"Neighbour"

 

[platforminc]

Right.

So I spoke to the neighbour yesterday.

1. I offered to raise what appears to be the party wall, which is the wall in between our garages.
2. Once point 1 has been done, I offered to pay for a new flat roof over their existing roof, this is to minimise the disruption a new roof would have caused.
3. The new flat roof I would be constructing for them would be just under 6 sqm, so its pretty small. however the garage wall needs to be raised by about 600mm to allow for a fall.
4. Neighbour is being unreasonable as they have gone to call their son.
5. Saying to me that its because of my work that is the cause of this for them
6. I have tried to limit the inconvenience by offering to put a roof on top of a roof.
7. There is a need to remove old felt where the 2 garage roofs previously met so that i can add bricks to it, this will leave an opening of about 2 inches, which I will cover up.
8. Neighbour is making a meal of point 7
9. I raised the point about the nuisance that the rusted metal pipe coming out at the back of my garden and draining to the floor.
10. Neighbour was the one who authorised this work
11. I made it clear to them that its unacceptable to me, even though it might have been acceptable to the previous neighbours. It isnt to me. I have young kids who the rusted metal pipe could injure and besides the water from thier roof would be damaging to my property.
12. Neighbour already signed a party wall agreement with me (digging within 3m), what they did not sign is altering the party wall.
13. The Neighbour is being completely unreasonable, son asked me if any timber would be on thier wall as a result of the new roof I want to offer them, I said yes because its needed to support he roof, just the same way there is a timber there supporting their existing roof. Neighbours son said, they do not want it, how else can a roof be constructed without any timber to support it.
14. Neighbour then said to me as a passing comment, they wished they didn't sign the party wall agreement initially.
15. Neighbour asking me to put everything in writing and that they need to show their surveyor.

In light of the above, the advantage of raising the party wall is that the garage is very small in width as is, 1.4m. If I use the wall by raising it, I can have a timber frame construction for my garage conversion which doesn't involve any digging for an eccentric foundation, quicker as well and most importantly it solves the drainage problem for my neighbour at no cost to them.

I have asked my conveyancing solicitor and they confirmed that the neighbour has no overhang rights nor any easement to drain their roof straight onto the floor of my garden without any gully, etc. The ironic thing is that, when I put it to the neighbour and his son that would he have my rain water draining to the floor of his garden, the sons reply was I was this before buying the house, the fathers reply was he would put a soakaway there and drain it into his side of the garden.

 

[Leofric]

Neighbour asking me to put everything in writing and that they need to show their surveyor.

- isn't that reasonable

Your neighbour has appointed a surveyor and you have appointed a surveyor to deal with the problem ,
so won't it be dealt with under The Party Wall Act

- isn't it what The Party Wall Act is for ​

 

[Notch7]

- isn't that reasonable

- isn't it what The Party Wall Act is for ​

In theory.

In practice probably the party wall surveyors will rack up huge fees, they will be the only winners.

I wonder if the OP should decide how much money he wants to throw at it. He might be best offering to the neighbours he will cover the cost of all building works and pay them a few £k hard cash. If that doesnt work, then maybe he should forget doing the extension.

The party wall dispute will cost an unknown amount and will drag on for an unknown amount of time. What will the total bill be? £5k, £10k, £20k

 

[platforminc]

No way.
I would happily construct a new wall on my side. Just means smaller space but its not the end of the world.

However once I go down this route, the nuisance of thier drain coming into my garden needs to be abated. I will do whatever it takes, even seeking a legal injunction or finding a way to divert the water into his garden if possible


Also not going to any surveyor, I already have the rights to dig a new foundation by virtue of the party wall agreement signed by the neighbour.

In theory.

In practice probably the party wall surveyors will rack up huge fees, they will be the only winners.

I wonder if the OP should decide how much money he wants to throw at it. He might be best offering to the neighbours he will cover the cost of all building works and pay them a few £k hard cash. If that doesnt work, then maybe he should forget doing the extension.

The party wall dispute will cost an unknown amount and will drag on for an unknown amount of time. What will the total bill be? £5k, £10k, £20k

 

[Leofric]

I can ask what the issue is, but i suspect they could well tell me, we have appointed a surveyor talk to them.

I must have misunderstood the situation, I took the above to mean you had appointed a surveyor under The Party Wall Act.
I don't know how much it would cost in surveyor's fees to sort this out but good luck with it anyway however you decide to do it.

 

[Lower]

Its disappointing they've chosen to take that stance, particularly after your offer.

Maybe the party wall solicitors will explain to them that its in their interests to be reasonable.