Party wall dispute with neighbor - what are my rights here

[platforminc]

Just adding the pictures of the back garden.

 

[donrkebab]

I've been following this thread, and there are two problems. You have the attitude that you can do what you like and your neighbour has to put up with it, very wrong. I'm a reasonable person but if I was your neighbour I would now have a very hardnosed attitude towards you, ie I would give you nothing.

You have created this mess and you deserve all you get, I feel sorry for your neighbour.

 

[platforminc]

I don't think I have the attitude of doing what I like.

I have been reasonable In my opinion, are you able to provide me with an alternative solution.

I do have the right to do work to my property, where there are shared stuff which affects me, I have to take my neighbours views into consideration and protect my interests in good faith. Now they have been unreasonable in my opinion.

I've been following this thread, and there are two problems. You have the attitude that you can do what you like and your neighbour has to put up with it, very wrong. I'm a reasonable person but if I was your neighbour I would now have a very hardnosed attitude towards you, ie I would give you nothing.

You have created this mess and you deserve all you get, I feel sorry for your neighbour.

 

[platforminc]

What would you have done differently ?
I'm just curious.

 

[donrkebab]

What would you have done differently ?

I would design an extension that fitted in with my neighbours existing structure, including incorporating the drainage issue.

Result - neighbours are happy - I have my extension - we can be friends - and we both live in peace.

 

[Tardigrade]

Yes, I have to say I agree your attitude is coming across poorly as being entitled. In particular, as the other chap pointed out, when you buy a property you buy it as is. If your neighbours signed a party wall agreement, then sold the house, and the new neighbours said "we didn't sign the agreement! We've just bought the house! And actually we'd prefer it if you lowered your roof back to what it was before!". Would that be fine with you because they "had just bought the house"? What if they asked you to pay for it too!? That is literally your argument, and it is weak. Bottom line you want to do work that affects them that they don't feel a need for...so to start off with a position they should pay because you deem it benefits them somewhat? No wonder it has gone down this road with neighbour reacting.

Now, instead of taking a step back and re-adjusting your approach it looks like you'd rather shoot yourself in the foot with a separate wall, smaller space, and the effort of suing them over drainage. You come across to me as spiteful.

The ONLY thing I've read of your complaints that has any merit is the drainage. That would annoy me too, but you really should ask if you are going the best way about resolving it. Even here, depending on how long this has been in place, they may, as a previous poster noted, have accrued common law rights to continue draining into your property. That may sound nuts, but it is how I remember the law. So you could actually lose the action you plan on taking. I'm not certain on this point - you can spend money on a lawyer if you like - but it is my recollection.

I don't even understand what you are suggesting with adding an extra roof, taking felt off and leaving a gap etc...but just hearing it makes me think I probably wouldn't want it either.

As others have said; you may not hear this but the best way forward is to:
a) reset your attitude and re-engage your neighbour
b) cover the cost of everything, and imagine you were your neighbour (no bodge jobs with extra roofs and felt gaps - something YOU would want in their position).
c) Outline things clearly and simply so as not to fluster your neighbours into thinking they need all this extra advice.

 

[platforminc]

Thanks for the advice and I do hear you.

If you read the update to my posts I have now offered to bear the entire cost.

Initially, what lead to the spilt with the cost was that, I am using GRP (fibre glass roofing) for my flat roof, when my neighbour heard that he thought it was glass and said he didn't want that. He then said he would happily pay for felt covering which is what he currently has.

Right now the reason I suggested my own wall is that, any offer I come up with would have to go through his surveyor, now as I understand it, I am the one doing the works so I would need to pay for a surveyor and also pay for his, that is likely to be 1,500 minimum plus the cost of the works, the cost of the works is minor as I am already having works done.

Would you pay the £1,500 for a surveyor or rather build up a new wall and loose 300mm space.

Whether I like it or not, i need a new wall. Its whether it should be the shared wall or my new wall, if the former is going to be frought with issues, I would happily walk away.

What infuriates me is that it's the neighbour who came to me to highlight the issue and we had an agreement to build a wall at my cost, only for them to have a change of mind.

In fact it invalidated my architectural plans sent to the council, I had to have new drawings done when they changed thier mind. I stomached all the cost and inconvenience without any complaint.

Yes, I have to say I agree your attitude is coming across poorly as being entitled. In particular, as the other chap pointed out, when you buy a property you buy it as is. If your neighbours signed a party wall agreement, then sold the house, and the new neighbours said "we didn't sign the agreement! We've just bought the house! And actually we'd prefer it if you lowered your roof back to what it was before!". Would that be fine with you because they "had just bought the house"? What if they asked you to pay for it too!? That is literally your argument, and it is weak. Bottom line you want to do work that affects them that they don't feel a need for...so to start off with a position they should pay because you deem it benefits them somewhat? No wonder it has gone down this road with neighbour reacting.

Now, instead of taking a step back and re-adjusting your approach it looks like you'd rather shoot yourself in the foot with a separate wall, smaller space, and the effort of suing them over drainage. You come across to me as spiteful.

The ONLY thing I've read of your complaints that has any merit is the drainage. That would annoy me too, but you really should ask if you are going the best way about resolving it. Even here, depending on how long this has been in place, they may, as a previous poster noted, have accrued common law rights to continue draining into your property. That may sound nuts, but it is how I remember the law. So you could actually lose the action you plan on taking. I'm not certain on this point - you can spend money on a lawyer if you like - but it is my recollection.

I don't even understand what you are suggesting with adding an extra roof, taking felt off and leaving a gap etc...but just hearing it makes me think I probably wouldn't want it either.

As others have said; you may not hear this but the best way forward is to:
a) reset your attitude and re-engage your neighbour
b) cover the cost of everything, and imagine you were your neighbour (no bodge jobs with extra roofs and felt gaps - something YOU would want in their position).
c) Outline things clearly and simply so as not to fluster your neighbours into thinking they need all this extra advice.

 

[platforminc]

Now that my garage roof is off, it needed to be off whether I like it or not, the old roof is plastic shed roof which doesn't meet building regulation standard and was already part of my proposed planning permission.

My neighbours roof is now exposed slightly, the timber is rotten the felt had no flashing.

I didn't touch it and I dont want to. Where does this leave me legally.

 

[Tardigrade]

The timeline of who did what when is now confusing me but I get your frustration. Building work can be immensely pressured with all the approvals, cost, time, snags etc. It can change one's behaviour!

Re: legal position. I'm no lawyer and take everything that I say with a pinch of salt. I'm also not a builder, and struggling to follow what you describe. I just did a law degree ages ago which makes me dangerous . Firstly, it only matters if they take action. Most people talk but don't act. If you have only done work to your roof, have not breached party wall regs or touched their roof and it just so happens that in doing work you exposed to the elements something their side that was previously sheltered by you - then I don't see any liability myself. If you detached something or cut something, then I'd think there is very much a risk.

More than anything, this is the type of thing that can devolve into neighbours-hating-each-other and that's really bad news. I suggest not smirking if/when they bring up the problem. Appear sorrowful, and say you didn't know what else you could do in the circumstances etc.

Re: your previous post:
1) As a thought you keep focusing on the husband and what he says. You seem to be under-appreciating the fact the power appears to lie with the wife. You can't dismiss her in any charm offensive.
2) It isn't too late to roll everything back. Start again. Take over tea and biscuits when both are at home and just go back to first principles. Empathise with their concerns; admit you didn't get your approach right or understand their needs first time around. If things have got heated apologise and explain it is the pressure of the work etc. Re-iterate you want them to end up with something that makes them happy; that you will cover the cost; that party wall surveyor process is expensive and will just lead to everyone losing out. If they feel they need the son along too for another chat, help make that happen and don't get frustrated. People get worried over these things.

If you do all this and still get irrational stonewalling, well, then I hope you get 'em over the drainage.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You might find you can get some free legal knowledgeable advice via a post in uk.legal.moderated newsgroup.

 

[cdbe]

Can I ask, where did your garage roof drain to, before you removed it?

 

[platforminc]

Please look at some of the pictures I put up and also the one attached.

It was joined together and then linked with felt to drop into the tiny space between the 2 houses and then onto my garden.

I have videos, it's the best way to describe the issue, please see the picture below.

Can I ask, where did your garage roof drain to, before you removed it?

 

[Leofric]

Looking at the photos - has somebody actually 'designed ' ( using the term loosely ) all this ,what is going on

 

[platforminc]

I know right !
This is how I met it, and whilst its unfortunate that my attitude may come across on this thread. This is what I met when I bought the place.
How can this be acceptable ?
Lets forget the wall business, the drainage issue is a biggie for me.

Looking at the photos - has somebody actually 'designed ' ( using the term loosely ) all this ,what is going on

 

[platforminc]

A raised dividing wall + new garage roof with the correct fall will sort out this drainage issue, albeit with some inconvinience to my neighbours.