Paying upfront for garden fence job

[Harry Bloomfield]

Above quote-I own property, but don’t follow ref to “contractor having some leverage to get paid”... Paid for what?

Anyone who owns their property obviously has collateral to ensure a contractor can get paid, so no reason why a deposit should be needed - your property is his guarantee that you would pay. If the worst happened and he didn't get paid he could take you to court and be certain to get paid.

Well done on finding an address, but be sure you do have the correct address.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Ahh. Many thanks for explaining. Will keep thee posted on developments. It’s v bizarre, guy is posting on his business Facebook page and his own like it’s going out if fashion. Completely oblivious to the problems he’s caused. Does he really think he can walk off with £450 of our dosh??

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Ahh. Many thanks for explaining. Will keep thee posted on developments. It’s v bizarre, guy is posting on his business Facebook page and his own like it’s going out if fashion. Completely oblivious to the problems he’s caused. Does he really think he can walk off with £450 of our dosh??

Yes, some do think they can get away with it. Can you not post a warning on his Facebook page?

I am aware of one local odd jobs man's dealings a few years ago, on Facebook. He was stealing photographs from a reputable businesses website, to give the impression he was competent to do lots of jobs. In fact he was signing on and driving round in an untaxed, uninsured and no MOT old van. His work was far from being competent from what I saw.

I think only a limited company has to be registered with Companies House and file public accounts with them. Is he claiming to be a limited company? Is he claiming to be VAT registered, if he is he has to provide a VAT registration number to charge customers VAT. A genuine VAT number is an even easier way to find a companies official address.

 

[Nige F]

Thanks. Think that’s inevitable now. Pretty certain the guy is an ex “wrong un”..

No such thing as ex. Have him - Small claims and Good Luck

 

[Ted Phillips]

Thanks for more helpful responses. Would be gobsmacked if he had limited company. Vat registered - Is this likely? How would I find out whether he was or should be? Posting warnings- v much intend to do this. Have Facebook, “NextDoor Digest” to use. He has also been endorsed on my office’s “services needed” forum, so will include that do. I haven’t done, or even threatened to do any of that, worried it will make situation worse. (If that’s possible)

Incidentally, the lady that “recommended him” is also stressed out. She’s been v helpful in trying to get him to pay up.

 

[opps]

As a sole trader decorator. I cannot afford to pay for expensive materials and cover my labour costs simultaneously. My credit rating is pants, I am a rubbish businessman, I provide a high quality of finish but doing so invariably results in me earning less than I should.

All of my work is based on recommendation and as such none of clients seem to find paying upfront for materials as being untoward.

I tend to see upfront payments as a commitment by the customer. I'd hate to buy products that cannot be returned to the supplier only to have a customer cancel a job at the 11th hour.

 

[Ted Phillips]

As a sole trader decorator. I cannot afford to pay for expensive materials and cover my labour costs simultaneously. My credit rating is pants, I am a rubbish businessman, I provide a high quality of finish but doing so invariably results in me earning less than I should.

All of my work is based on recommendation and as such none of clients seem to find paying upfront for materials as being untoward.

I tend to see upfront payments as a commitment by the customer. I'd hate to buy products that cannot be returned to the supplier only to have a customer cancel a job at the 11th hour.

How often have you kept £450 when you hadn’t done any work and a job had been cancelled? Our experience has put me off paying anything up front ever again.

 

[opps]

Thanks for more helpful responses. Would be gobsmacked if he had limited company. Vat registered - Is this likely? How would I find out whether he was or should be? Posting warnings- v much intend to do this. Have Facebook, “NextDoor Digest” to use. He has also been endorsed on my office’s “services needed” forum, so will include that do. I haven’t done, or even threatened to do any of that, worried it will make situation worse. (If that’s possible)

Incidentally, the lady that “recommended him” is also stressed out. She’s been v helpful in trying to get him to pay up.

I wish you luck. My other half was conned out of £2800 by some scammer on CheckaTrade. she used him to do some small jobs and he gave her some BS about being able to redo our downstairs bathroom. She gave him the money (online bank transfer) to buy the materials. Needless to say he didn't purchase any materials. She eventually contacted the bank who froze his account pending a potential fraud claim. He finally replied to her WhatsApp messages and threatened her. That was the point at which so told me what was going on.

The bank then decided that they wouldn't discuss the case with her, citing the Data Protection act.

I used an online service to find his registered address and to see how many unsatisfied CCJs are outstanding. It was clear that pursuing him through the courts would leave us at the back of the queue.

After ploughing through hundreds of Facebook accounts, I discovered that Toby Smith is from a family whose matriarch brags on Facebook about her needle work and the ability to fake clothing logos, oh and she likes horse drawn caravans... nuff said.

I suspect that although he is on the electrical role as living at his parents' home in Hatfield, whenever the bailiffs turn up, his parents pretend that they don't know his whereabouts.

I seriously doubt my GF will ever get the money back.

I wish you luck but try to focus on how much time and money it may cost to try and get your deposit back.

 

[opps]

How often have you kept £450 when you hadn’t done any work and a job had been cancelled? Our experience has put me off paying anything up front ever again.

Never. I am not that kind of person.

Taking money for a deposit to purchase materials and not providing proof of purchase or actually doing any work is, I believe, fraud. Unfortunately convincing the police to uphold the law is probably a pointless exercise.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Thanks. Do you mean electrical role or electoral roll? I don’t think he’s reached professional scammer status yet. He’s obviously set up this business in last year (Business Facebook site started June 18) He also advertises on NextDoor Digest- ever heard of that. My colleague in work found him via that, and he did a few gardening jobs for her (v good quality and good price) It seems that we approached him just as 1. Wife having baby. 2. Father seriously ill. 3. Marital issues. 4. Van off road.....

He asked for the money to buy the feather edge fence. He never bought any wood as the job was cancelled without him incurring any expense.

Thinking about Small Claims Service (£35 fee) and or threat of negative comment on all the various sites.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Thanks for more helpful responses. Would be gobsmacked if he had limited company. Vat registered - Is this likely?

Very unlikely to both questions, but that fact may not stop him charging VAT. Don't send any Facebook or etc. warning out, until he has satisfied his debt to you, you would be cutting your own throat.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As a sole trader decorator. I cannot afford to pay for expensive materials and cover my labour costs simultaneously. My credit rating is pants, I am a rubbish businessman, I provide a high quality of finish but doing so invariably results in me earning less than I should.

All of my work is based on recommendation and as such none of clients seem to find paying upfront for materials as being untoward.

I can sympathise with that, if you are reasonably well known for being reliable in the area.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Very unlikely to both questions, but that fact may not stop him charging VAT. Don't send any Facebook or etc. warning out, until he has satisfied his debt to you, you would be cutting your own throat.

Hi

Isn’t that a chicken and egg situation? At what point can we be satisfied that he not going to pay up??

Is it better to rattle of the recorded delivery letter indicating intention to start Small Claims process?

 

[Ted Phillips]

Rattle off

 

[opps]

Thanks. Do you mean electrical role or electoral roll? I don’t think he’s reached professional scammer status yet. He’s obviously set up this business in last year (Business Facebook site started June 18) He also advertises on NextDoor Digest- ever heard of that. My colleague in work found him via that, and he did a few gardening jobs for her (v good quality and good price) It seems that we approached him just as 1. Wife having baby. 2. Father seriously ill. 3. Marital issues. 4. Van off road.....

He asked for the money to buy the feather edge fence. He never bought any wood as the job was cancelled without him incurring any expense.

Thinking about Small Claims Service (£35 fee) and or threat of negative comment on all the various sites.

Sorry, yes I meant roll. Only had 4 hours sleep last night.

The fact that he set up his FB profile in the last year could be an indicator that he regularly drops profiles and sets up new ones. By all accounts Toby would get blocked from CheckaTrade and then create a new profile.

Off hand I can't remember which site I used to obtain his registered address. It was about a tenner for a month's unlimited access (I used it to find out where various relatives/FB friends lived). It also allowed me see how many CCJs he had.

I wasn't trying to stalk his relatives/friends, I was aware that it was likely that he wasn't really living at his parents. I probably spent 40+ hours flicking through Facebook posts from his inbred family and coke head friends.

We even got as far as buying a magnetic GPS tracker and toyed with the idea of finding his new CheckaTrade account and faking a location for him to look at a job and then sticking it on the underside of the van so that we could find out where he really lives. Then we discovered that we'd have to stick the tracker on the roof to actually get a decent GPS signal.