Paying upfront for garden fence job

[Harry Bloomfield]

Hi

Isn’t that a chicken and egg situation? At what point can we be satisfied that he not going to pay up??

Is it better to rattle of the recorded delivery letter indicating intention to start Small Claims process?

Reading what you have tried already to get him to do the job, or refund you, I would suggest you have reached the stage of writing the warning Letter Before Action. There are plenty of LBA template letters for doing this on line.

It is not a legal requirement, but a judge might take a dim view of you at least not given him the opportunity to sort things out, before involving the small , claims court. Document it as much as you can, all the way from first contact, your questions and his replies to them, plus dates, plus type of communication -as accurately as possible. If it does get that far, make sure you turn up to the hearing, so your side i heard. Likely it will just be a small office with a desk and a judge sat there, really nothing to be afraid of - all very informal.

Winning your case, is only half of the battle, the other half is getting the cash out of him. If you are sure he has property, then pay for a bailiff to recover your money and the cost of the bailiff.

 

[Ted Phillips]

You must be psychic, as just drafting the LBA letter now.

Many thanks.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Another thought. How on earth can this scenario be described as a “dispute”? He hasn’t for one second said he’s refusing to pay (contract entered into etc). He’s saying he can’t pay. He ain’t the sharpest tool, but he knows I have email receipt, bacs record, text, Facebook and voicemail response, all of which tantamount to guilty as charged.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Its not really a dispute. He took your money on the pretext of needing it as a deposit to buy the material to do the job. It seems unlikely he actually used the money to buy the material, otherwise it would have been delivered to your property. Instead he has likely diverted it to some other more pressing need - none of which is your problem, rather it is his problem.

He either owes you your job completed to a professional standard, with the rest of the amount paid to him, or your deposit refunded in full. Him no longer having the money is his problem, not yours.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Thanks again. I have mentioned that point, as clearly and concisely as I could. Does the process still consider these as “disputes”?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Thanks again. I have mentioned that point, as clearly and concisely as I could. Does the process still consider these as “disputes”?

I don't really know how to answer that, the amount isn't disputed, only the the lack of any work being done, but he hasn't disputed that either. You have been patient, he has let you down repeatedly.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Thanks again. Will let you know how I get on. Thanks for your time.

 

[opps]

I can sympathise with that, if you are reasonably well known for being reliable in the area.

Thanks. As I said, my customers recommend me to their friends. If I ever upset one of them, I would close down a potential income stream.

Admittedly when it comes to decorating, a few hundred's worth of emulsion is unlikely to result in my eating out of the bin next to the bus stop. Nevertheless customers should not assume that the tradesmen that they use have some kind of magical zero cost access to cash.

 

[TeeDub]

It's a shame over something like this. I mean it's not a trivial amount, but it's not something mind blowing.

The letter before action is reasonable. Speak to Citizens Advice. They can record the conversations, report it to trading standards (if you wish) and give you sample documents and letters to send off.

192.com is pretty decent for finding someone. Cross reference the names you have and then start searching on Facebook and ratedpeople, checkatrade.com etc before plump up the few quid for a record on the website. It doesn't do anything unusual, just collates information from various sources.
Even then search the telephone number online, or even his email address to see if it's linked to any other people or accounts.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Hi

Strange that you should say amount not “mind blowing”, especially when someone has waltzed off with £450.

I have guy’s address now-thanks. I am about to issue Pre LBA email, with LBA to follow if no response. Re LBA- the standard templates have this sentence:

“To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution to resolve this problem”

Do I need to include this in a case where culpability is not in doubt, just alleged inability to pay. I just don’t want this ### to see this as an opportunity for massive delaying tactics.

Thanks again.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

“To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution to resolve this problem”

Do I need to include this in a case where culpability is not in doubt, just alleged inability to pay. I just don’t want this ### to see this as an opportunity for massive delaying tactics.

Thanks again.

That line just demonstrates a willingness to settle out of court, if such would be agreeable to BOTH parties. Leave it in, a judge would look favourably on an attempt to settle out of court by you.

£450 is £450 that belongs to you, that you have worked hard for. A petty amount to some, but large sum to loose for others.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Thanks. V prompt and constructive as usual.

 

[Notch7]

Hi

Strange that you should say amount not “mind blowing”, especially when someone has waltzed off with £450.

I have guy’s address now-thanks. I am about to issue Pre LBA email, with LBA to follow if no response. Re LBA- the standard templates have this sentence:

“To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution to resolve this problem”

Do I need to include this in a case where culpability is not in doubt, just alleged inability to pay. I just don’t want this ### to see this as an opportunity for massive delaying tactics.

Thanks again.

Makes no difference since a court case would be months away. It can easily drag on 6 months.

If the guy has a chaotic life, he is probably in debt with max'd out credit cards.


He may genuinly have loads of debts and doesnt have the money to pay you back.
Or he is a deliberate crook.

If he is the first, a threat of court may pressure him to scrabble round to get your deposit returned.
If the second he might have loads of CCJs and wont care.

 

[Ted Phillips]

Makes no difference since a court case would be months away. It can easily drag on 6 months.

If the guy has a chaotic life, he is probably in debt with max'd out credit cards.


He may genuinly have loads of debts and doesnt have the money to pay you back.
Or he is a deliberate crook.

If he is the first, a threat of court may pressure him to scrabble round to get your deposit returned.
If the second he might have loads of CCJs and wont care.

Noted. It’s an odd one. He may well be an ex crook, based on info he confided to my work colleague. On the other hand he pledged to her that he was “getting his life back on road again”.. You’d also think he’d avoid situations like this in that case???

I think it militates more towards chaotic lifestyle, but Facebook and NextDoor Digest suggest he’s been working while using this “strapped for cash” argument.

 

[Ted Phillips]

You won’ Adam n’ Eve this. Sent the initial text/email. (Advising him that LBA on its way) His response was “I’m not a business, but a sole trader”!!!

V clear now that he had no intention of coughing up and is going to brazen it out. Guess I still send the LBA and let the process take its course? Do I still quote all the stuff about waiting thirty days, use alternative dispute procedure etc?

Pretty obvious this was his intention all along.

Thanks