Pin Nailer

[stealthwolf]

I'm toying with the idea of a pin nailer for helping pin bits of wood whilst the glue dries for simple woodworking projects. It would be quicker than me using a pin hammer, but space is at a premium. So instead of a compressor and air powered tool, I'm looking at electric or cordless options (I've already got a few Makita tools).

What (if anything) would you recommend?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Firstly, pneumatics are considerably cheaper than cordless, not to mention smaller, lighter, etc, but as you have Makitas already you'll probably want to take a look at the DBN500 (18g) - a peculiar looking gun, very expensive and large and I personally found unwieldy for an 18g nailer (I tried one a while back when we had glaziers on a job who were using them - they had them only because the firm had standardised on Makita LXT batteries for the cordless kit). Frankly I prefer even a Paslode 2nd fix gun to this, despite generally detesting gas guns. The next size up, the 16g DBN600 is similarly expensive and heavy, although more conventionally styled. but I wouldn't recommend that, either, having tried (and failed) to get one to sink 50mm pins into hardwood (American oak) during a dealer demo day. Both these tools are air over battery (i.e. they see battery power to compress air which in turn is used to drive the pin into the wood), so you'd have thought that on a prof4ssional tool they'd be able to sink 45 to 50mm nails into hardwood. The only other pinners sold by Makita are the little 23g DST221, etc models which are designed for tracking beading, etc on place. Again a "dear do" and with a lot of negative feelings expressed on the net (never used one, so can't say personally). TBH whilst Makita do a lot of things well (and maybe I'm a "fanboi"), I'm afraid that nailers aren't their forte IMHO

But then the same could be said of Milwaukee 's first generation 2nd fix nailers (15, 16 and 18g), all of which have fallen well short of the mark (they tend to lock out if driven at any speed, or bump fired for more than 10 or 12 nails) - so much so that they have embarked on a "Gen 2" (ground up redesign) range which will start to appear in the USA from October (?) 2019 onwards. They look interesting

I reckon that the best bet for cordless 2nd fix is currently the Hitachi 18 volt stuff. Again air over battery, these guns will sink 50mm pins in hardwood (15, 16 and 18g - tried them all). Hitachi also make a first fix gun which is comparable to the DW cordless in performance.

To put this in perspctive, I currently use a DW 2nd generation 1st fix gun (DCN692 - the better 2-speed model) and 2nd generation 16g gun (DCN660). The DCN660 can't sink 50mm pins in some hardwoods which means that DW won't be selling me an 18g gun. This is despite having had success with their 1st generation guns (16g and 8g). So I, too , am looking at the market and at the moment Hitachi is the front runner for me, despite having a non-Makita battery

 

[stealthwolf]

Thanks for that J&K. Sounds very much like electric pin nailers just aren’t there at the same level as pneumatic ones. I’ll have a rethink because I didn’t want to spend £300-400 for something that won’t get as much as my other cordless tools.

 

[foxhole]

I use a cheap brad gun for holding stuff while gluing.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Well it's not quite that simple. Yes, cordless pinners are and always will be heavier and larger than gas nailers, but in terms of performance on a lot of second fix materials (e.g 18mm MDF architrave, 22mm softwood skirting, 18mm HW ply, 22mm chipboard, etc) they perform just as well as the equivalent gas gun. I say that with 10 years use of 1st and 2nd generation DW guns under my belt. Looking back DW got it almost right with the very first generation of 2nd fix cordless nailers apart from their poor performance on some hardwoods and the gawdawful lumpen battery system. The problem is that nobody has much improved on that until Hitachi (a firm with decades of industrial and trade pneumatic nailers experience) came along. If all you are doing is working with thinner/lighter materials and you don't intend to bang in hundreds of metres of skirting every week then you won't have problems with any of the tools I mentioned

 

[stealthwolf]

I use a cheap brad gun for holding stuff while gluing.

Which one do you use?

If all you are doing is working with thinner/lighter materials and you don't intend to bang in hundreds of metres of skirting every week then you won't have problems with any of the tools I mentioned

All i’ve got planned so far is adding trim pieces to a wooden planter, and making a trellis. Nothing major.

 

[lostinthelight]

No idea what they are like
https://www.aldi.co.uk/ferrex-18v-l...VQuDtCh0B2A-KEAAYASAAEgLXlPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Deleted member 174758]

No idea what they are like
https://www.aldi.co.uk/ferrex-18v-l...VQuDtCh0B2A-KEAAYASAAEgLXlPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Combined nailer/staplers are generally awful as nailers. That is because the drive "pin" needs to be wide enough to accommodate the head of the staple, so when you do drive little 18 gauge pins with the things they tend to leave you with a staple crown width dent in the top of your workpiece. I've tried a few comnbined nailer/stapler tools over the years and the results have always been the same (probably OK if you are going to fill and sand back, though). Just saying

 

[foxhole]

Have a cheap tacwise, nailer only does not staple.

 

[stealthwolf]

So I, too , am looking at the market and at the moment Hitachi is the front runner for me, despite having a non-Makita battery

Did you ever get one in the end J&K? Any thoughts on the Hitachi?

 

[^woody^]

I was looking at a Ryobi 18g nailer but I notice that they also sell a 23g pinner in the US, so I'm considering that instead.

They both seem to get good reviews and are a lot cheaper than the other brand's offerings, and as I won't be using it daily or even much during a day, the weight won't be an issue and the price is more bearable.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Did you ever get one in the end J&K? Any thoughts on the Hitachi?

Yes. I went the whole hog and got rid of my DW 1st and 2nd fix guns and bought four Hitachi/Hikoki guns - 1st fix, 15 gauge angled 2nd fix, 16 gauge straight 2nd fix and 18 gauge straight 2nd fix. I am currently considering the 23 gauge pinner as well which is available in the UK. They have one or two quirks, but overall I am happy with them and in particular the fact that both the 16 and 18 gauge pinners can sink 45mm pins in mahogany and other hardwoods - something the DW DCN660 can't manage consistently.

I didn't consider Milwaukee because their 1st generation 2nd fix guns were so badly flawed whilst the second generation guns, and in particular the 1st fix nailer, hadn't arrived when I made the switch back in January/February (they are just now becoming available)

TBH Ryobi was never an option for me. The AvE tear down of a Ryobi Air Strike nailer on YouTube clearly shows it to be a home user tool and not fit for trade use which in my mind underlines my decision not to consider Ryobi; when I am using this sort of kit it tends to be fairly intensive usage, where reliability (and support/parts availability) is key.

 

[^woody^]

I've gone for a hand pin pusher while I do a bit more research on the Ryobi 23g, and to work out how often I will actually need it.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Do you mean a "ram pin" or "push pin"? (for anyone wanting to search for one of those) I didn't think you could drive anything as small as veneer pins (about the nearest size of loose pin I can think of to the 23gauge machine pin) with a ram pin. Years back I used to use one on panel pins. They can be hard work. I still have mine somewhere

 

[^woody^]

Yes, pin push(er).

There are smaller versions available, apparently model boat makers use them, so I'll see if the standard one does not take the veneer pins then the smaller one should (hopefully)

I'l probably only need it for thin ply, and SW/HW strips and no extensive pinning.