Please help. Light curcuit issue (Diagram attached)

[Hobobanobo]

(Colour coded cables were for my pairing excercise, not to state what colour the wire is.
All wires red. Switched lives were black.
Earths on the power supply line)

After changing a light fitting and switch in kitchen where I didnt take photos first. I spent the day trying to work out why my lights dont work.
Living room switch was giving kitchen switch power when on.
Living room light didnt work at all (maybe dead)
The kitchen light is a 2 gang one way but I only saw one switched live so assume only one switch needed for both lights.
Yellow circled wire was loose which may explain the whole (living room light needed to be on for kitchen switch to work)

With this set up I shouldnt have a 2 gang in the kitchen right?
Also how would i make it into a 2 gang. Seperate the switched lives or is there more to it.

Thank you for any advise befire I put lights back up

 

[Hobobanobo]

I should also note. 2 red cables in the switch couldnt be matched to a light or a switch. They are not live. No idea...

 

[sparkwright]

Hard to tell without a test meter of some kind.

Does just one circuit breaker or fuse at the consumer unit serve the 2 gang switch?
Would be helpful to confirm this first.

Was there a short link wire in the switch?
It looks two wires have/had their ends folded over - which usually means only one wire in a terminal.

Is it possible the wire with its end folded over went to one light
and
The wire with the yellow tape went to another light
and
The remaining wires with a link between are the feeds?

This is pure guesswork - and you need to trace all of the wires and confirm what they all before connecting anything.

 

[Adam_151]

I'm afraid I cannot make any sense of your diagram, I think you'd be better off posting pictures of what you have at each light and switch position, also do you own a multimeter?

 

[sparkwright]

If it's easy, and you haven't put them up yet, send pictures of the wiring at the lights.

 

[sparkwright]

.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Sorry let me clarify.
I used a multimeter to work out which wire went where and draw it out. Then colour code each wire at both ends. Yellow, red, yellow/red etc.
It was the only way id remember.

The only live wire in the switch was tagged red.
(Borrowed someones tester for ten mins.)

Yes there was a bridge in the switch.

One 6amp breaker for downstairs light circuit.

Need to wire switches corrcetly. Does it look like the circuit makes sense? Im sure its meant to be a 1 gang switch set up for kitchen currently.id ideally want 2 gang, one switch per light but doesnt look possible now. Thise 2 untagged wires at switch puzzle me

Id have to pull the upstairs floors apart to find out what the 2 untagged wired on the switch are for.

Is there an app of some sort i can use to draw this out in a clearer way? Tbis diagram wirked for my ape brain but yeah I get its not the best.

 

[Hobobanobo]

For reference: in this order...
Light 1
Light 2
Switch in kitchen
Switch in living room
Living room Light

 

[sparkwright]

It looks like it's been wired the 'northern way'.
(Are you somewhere near the north?)

It's all disconnected!!!

To confirm, did the wiring at the lights consist of ONE red (live?) and the rest all blacks (neutrals?) ??

Or is there MORE than one red at each light?
(Hard to tell in photos.)

 

[Hobobanobo]

It looks like it's been wired the 'northern way'.
(Are you somewhere near the north?)

It's all disconnected!!!

To confirm, did the wiring at the lights consist of ONE red (live?) and the rest all blacks (neutrals?) ??

Or is there MORE than one red at each light?
(Hard to tell in photos.)

Confirmed north.
Well k1 light had a neuteal that isnt attached to any light or switch.
Then a black wires runs to each other light and the switch (But its live) tagged red from k1 to k2 to switch (assume this is in so.e sort of junction under floorboards). And tagged yellow/red from k2 to switch.
Every other wire is red.

 

[sparkwright]

What's confusing me is that you have a photo of a kitchen light with just one red (and a black), yet your diagram shows a lot more reds.

Can check your diagram, and also check it with your photos, and update it IF necessary?

Sorry, it's a lot of different things to look at...

 

[Adam_151]

Then a black wires runs to each other light and the switch (But its live)

How did you identify it as being a live?

tagged red from k1 to k2 to switch (assume this is in so.e sort of junction under floorboards).

Do you mean it was tagged red already (which would be to identify it as a live) or you have just tagged it red in identifying which conductor runs where using the rolls of tape you have (which potentially could be a source of confusion)

What are the cables at the switch, I thought it first it was four sheathed red singles, but is it actually 2x twin red?

 

[ericmark]

Most homes are wired ceiling rose to ceiling rose, with drops from ceiling rose to light switch. With this house, the hall light switch has three independent supplies, it is important to keep these separate or the RCBO's will trip, and the extra low voltage relay will be damaged, but in most houses only the stairs lights may cause a problem with wrong lines being used.

The Wiki area has diagrams the big problem we have is in the USA they wire from switch to switch, and so many smart switches are designed 110–250 volts, but require neutrals, and also are designed only to have one supply line for multi-gang switches.

In 1966 the last provision for not having earths to each light was removed, and before then the lights needed to be filament type, some of your pictures seem to be lacking earths. The ceiling rose

has been used as a junction box for years, to remove the ceiling rose there are special lighting junction boxes

but wrapping in insulation tape has never been an option, one can remove insulation tape without a tool, the ceiling rose is the only exception to the rule where you need a tool or key to access live wires.

It would take me some time to test what you have if I was there, I think it is going to be a problem working out from pictures what you have. I see old and new colours, and some singles used, so it seems likely you already have some junction boxes, I have same with this house with central heating, at the thermostat I have red, yellow, blue, and boiler brown, black, blue, but no idea where the junction box is. So cables have to be rung out, and in my case one is open circuit.

It is a slow, methodical process to map out what wires go where. And I can't really see how we can help.

 

[Hobobanobo]

How did you identify it as being a live?


Do you mean it was tagged red already (which would be to identify it as a live) or you have just tagged it red in identifying which conductor runs where using the rolls of tape you have (which potentially could be a source of confusion)

What are the cables at the switch, I thought it first it was four sheathed red singles, but is it actually 2x twin red?

I tested with a pen when all wired up.

Switch has 4 cables. Each with a red and a earth.

I tagged with tape i had on hand. So yes confusing if u dont use diagram below. which i used to get my head round what was going where.
I updated the actual wire colours here.
Tags on then are so i know what runs where only.
Untagged is unknown deatination.
I assume k1 is to breaker 1 live 1 neuteal.

 

[Adam_151]

1)Put all your lights back on the ceiling, connect the cables as per the colour of their inner insulation, red to live, black to neutral, all earths to earth.

2)At the switch get some connector block and put all four cables in one block, now switch on the power, do all the lights come on?

3)If yes, switch it off again, and take one cable out of the block at the switch at a time and put it in a separate block on its own, switch the power on, and note what is working. Repeat this as may times as necessary until you have identifyed (and labeled with a "K" and "L") wires which cause either the kitchen or living room light to do off. You will find of the other two one will make both not light up along with any others further down the circuit (thats your loop in) and one that will have no effect on the kitchen and living room but will stop other further down the cirucit working (thats your loop out). You don't need to know which one is which - You can mark them both as "F" or leave unmarked.

4) Put the wire you marked as "K" in the L1 terminal of the switch you want to work the kitchen. "L" in L1 of the one you want to opperate the lving room. Put the other two in the two common terminals (either way around) and also put the link between the two commons