Potterton Profile 80e boiler cutting off no heating or water

[twgas]

Your original post said you had to turn off the rads as they would heat up when just the HW is on, this made me think that problem 1)the 3 port valve was seized. You also said the pump has been changed and heat still isn't circulating so I think your second problem is a sludged system, probably a severe build up around the cold feed/open vent area - it will more than likely need cutting out and replacing or thoroughly cleaning.

 

[ragingcat]

Your original post said you had to turn off the rads as they would heat up when just the HW is on, this made me think that problem 1)the 3 port valve was seized. You also said the pump has been changed and heat still isn't circulating so I think your second problem is a sludged system, probably a severe build up around the cold feed/open vent area - it will more than likely need cutting out and replacing or thoroughly cleaning.

Did you check the email I sent to your hotmail address? When the bolier is switched on (for 4/5 minutes, the pump is running but no hot pipe near the pump plus I can feel that the 3 port valve is also buzzing and hot but no hot water passing through.

Your comments about the cold feed/open vent area:-

Can I put Fernox cleaner in the F&E tank and & drain the system a for double the quantity of Fernox Liquied. This will let the fernox into the pipe work. This may clear the sludge in the cold feed/open vent area?

As I am planning to do new bathroom downstairs with mixer shower, I donot want ot rush into installing new hot water cylinder when I might be better of putting a Megaflow Cylinder in the loft and get rid off old cylinder in the airing cupboard!

 

[doitall]

I think there's air in the primary flow.

Is there an air vent on the flow pipe to the cylinder.

Are you fixing the valve in the manual position when you vent/bleed anything.

Pump Off.

A pic showing the connections on the cylinder sounds like a plan.

 

[ragingcat]

I think there's air in the primary flow.

Is there an air vent on the flow pipe to the cylinder.

Are you fixing the valve in the manual position when you vent/bleed anything.

Pump Off.

A pic showing the connections on the cylinder sounds like a plan.

See the 3 images. I think my system diagram looks like this one. The pump is on the 1st floor landing on bathroom side and next to it (6 inch away on box room side) is the 3 port valve Honeywell Sundial Y plan.

From this 3 port valve one pipe (right side) is going to second bedroom.


There is also second pipe running parallel to pipe on which the pump is, so I assume that this is a 2 pipes system.

As far as the 3 port valve is concerned, if you lift it up and put it in the V grove(where it is marked manual), it is should be on manual for draining and filling. However, can you tell me if you keep it lose than does it switch automatically, controlled by room thermostat or cylinder thermosat?
View media item 14568View media item 14569 View media item 14570

 

[doitall]

I see no images.

Is there a means to take the air off, either manually or automatically, at the high point on the primary flow, where it connects to the cylinder.

 

[ragingcat]

I see no images.

Is there a means to take the air off, either manually or automatically, at the high point on the primary flow, where it connects to the cylinder.

Thanks doitall.

First Plumber came at 11:00 am to give an estimate. He spent (free of Charge) one hour checking the electric connection near the pump and 3 port valve which he said were all fine. Afterwards he checked the boiler PCB circuit, thermostat etc. Then he asked me for the boiler manual and looked up some part. He then went into his van and came after 10 minutes. He said he will guarantee that the CH system will work if I paid him £137 for part (or £70 if I agree to put in a refurbished part) plus £120 labour but he would not tell me what part needed replacing!
I said tell me what part you will replace and he said if I tell you will go with another plumber! What a joker. I said I will think about it as I had another plumber just walking into my house. He was a cowboy as there was nothing wrong with the boiler.
The second plumber came at 12:00pm who has been in business for 30 years (He said that). He said that the between the pump and F&E vent there was a loop due to wrong pipe layout Which was also causing overflow into the overhead tank due to blockage between the pump and boiler section of the pipe. He drained the system and then He put Fernox DS-3 (De-Scaler) in F&E tank (which he first disdissolvedto boiling hot water) and run the pump for 1 hour. He was alternating the pump between 3 and in between 2 and 3 so that airlock is pushed out of pipe towards the radiators. He then aired the RADs.
He then changed the 3 port valve. He said it was faulty as we always used to have RADs on when the controller was on Hot water only.
He took 6 hours to do the job. Litlittlet more an hours or so as he has to remove a RAD and hose it down in the garden. It cost me all together £466 made up of £360 labour for 6 hours, Fernox DS-3(£20) and valve (£86).
The pump has been left on No. 1 as on No. 2 it was sending the water in the F&E tank. He said that if on 1 it does no heat the RADS then I can put the pump on 2 and if it overflows then put a plug (which he gave me) on the vent pipe to block it. He said he can put a sealed system which will cost £180 including labour & Parts. I asked him do you not need to flush the system 3 times after putting the descaler and he said that is not necessary.

Only thing I am not sure is why did he used DS-3 and not use DS-40 a descaler and sludge remover? Unless he did no thave it with him! Also I do not think he put in a neutraliser after descaling!

He did not put the inhibitor either. I asked him why he has not and he said you can put it after few days! Or he will come around and put it in the F&E and only charge me for the protector.

 

[mickyg]

if it overflows then put a plug (which he gave me) on the vent pipe to block it.

WTF!

 

[gaspro1981]

I see no images.

Is there a means to take the air off, either manually or automatically, at the high point on the primary flow, where it connects to the cylinder.

Thanks doitall.

First Plumber came at 11:00 am to give an estimate. He spent (free of Charge) one hour checking the electric connection near the pump and 3 port valve which he said were all fine. Afterwards he checked the boiler PCB circuit, thermostat etc. Then he asked me for the boiler manual and looked up some part. He then went into his van and came after 10 minutes. He said he will guarantee that the CH system will work if I paid him £137 for part (or £70 if I agree to put in a refurbished part) plus £120 labour but he would not tell me what part needed replacing!
I said tell me what part you will replace and he said if I tell you will go with another plumber! What a joker. I said I will think about it as I had another plumber just walking into my house. He was a cowboy as there was nothing wrong with the boiler.
The second plumber came at 12:00pm who has been in business for 30 years (He said that). He said that the between the pump and F&E vent there was a loop due to wrong pipe layout Which was also causing overflow into the overhead tank due to blockage between the pump and boiler section of the pipe. He drained the system and then He put Fernox DS-3 (De-Scaler) in F&E tank (which he first disolved into boiling hot water) and run the pump for 1 hour. He was alternating the pump between 3 and in between 2 and 3 so that airlock is pushed out of pipe towards the radiators. He then aired the RADs.
He then changed the 3 port valve. He said it was faulty as we always used to have RADs on when the controller was on Hot water only.
He took 6 hours to do the job. Littel bit more an hours or so as he has to remove a RAD and hose it down in the garden. It cost me all together £466 made up of £360 labour for 6 hours, Fernox DS-3(£20) and valve (£86).
The pump has been left on No. 1 as on No. 2 it was sending the water in the F&E tank. He said that if on 1 it does no heat the RADS then I can put the pump on 2 and if it overflows then put a plug (which he gave me) on the vent pipe to block it. He said he can put a sealed system which will cost £180 including labour & Parts. I asked him do you not need to flush the system 3 times after putting the descaler and he said that is not necessary.

Only thing I am not sure is why did he used DS-3 and not use DS-40 a descaler and sludhe remover? Unless he did no thave it with him! Also I do not think he put in a neutraliser after descaling!

He did not put the inhibitor either. I asked him why he has not and he said you can put it after few days! Or he will come around and put it in the F&E and only charge me for the protector.

is this a joke

 

[ragingcat]

I see no images.

Is there a means to take the air off, either manually or automatically, at the high point on the primary flow, where it connects to the cylinder.

Thanks doitall.

First Plumber came at 11:00 am to give an estimate. He spent (free of Charge) one hour checking the electric connection near the pump and 3 port valve which he said were all fine. Afterwards he checked the boiler PCB circuit, thermostat etc. Then he asked me for the boiler manual and looked up some part. He then went into his van and came after 10 minutes. He said he will guarantee that the CH system will work if I paid him £137 for part (or £70 if I agree to put in a refurbished part) plus £120 labour but he would not tell me what part needed replacing!
I said tell me what part you will replace and he said if I tell you will go with another plumber! What a joker. I said I will think about it as I had another plumber just walking into my house. He was a cowboy as there was nothing wrong with the boiler.

The second plumber came at 12:00pm who has been in business for 30 years (He said that). He said that the between the pump and F&E vent there was a loop due to wrong pipe layout Which was also causing overflow into the overhead tank due to blockage between the pump and boiler section of the pipe. He drained the system and then He put Fernox DS-3 (De-Scaler) in F&E tank (which he first disdisolved to boiling hot water) and run the pump for 1 hour. He was alternating the pump between 3 and in between 2 and 3 so that airlock is pushed out of pipe towards the radiators. He then aired the RADs.
He then changed the 3 port valve. He said it was faulty as we always used to have RADs on when the controller was on Hot water only.
He took 6 hours to do the job. Litlittelt more an hours or so as he has to remove a RAD and hose it down in the garden. It cost me all together £466 made up of £360 labour for 6 hours, Fernox DS-3(£20) and valve (£86).
The pump has been left on No. 1 as on No. 2 it was sending the water in the F&E tank. He said that if on 1 it does no heat the RADS then I can put the pump on 2 and if it overflows then put a plug (which he gave me) on the vent pipe to block it. He said he can put a sealed system which will cost £180 including labour & Parts. I asked him do you not need to flush the system 3 times after putting the descaler and he said that is not necessary.

Only thing I am not sure is why did he used DS-3 and not use DS-40 a descaler and sludge remover? Unless he did not have it with him! Also I do not think he put in a neutraliser after descaling!

He did not put the inhibitor either. I asked him why he has not and he said you can put it after few days! Or he will come around and put it in the F&E and only charge me for the protector.

is this a joke

No. This is true. What part do you think is a joke?

 

[namsag]

You CANNOT plug off an open vent

 

[ragingcat]

You CANNOT plug off an open vent

What happens if you plug off the open vent. He said some people will say it will blow the boiler!

 

[namsag]

yes thats exactly what it can do, cold feed blocks up vent blocked by cap no where for expansion and something will go bang.He may have spent all day but has not fixed everything ,should not be pumping over

 

[doitall]

I think the whole post is a joke.

That air vent mark don't work is what you need working, to get the bloody air out of the primary flow, which is what I said about a week ago.

 

[doitall]

I wish you had told us about the pumping over, or is that something new.

Can we see the rest of the pic, showing the 3port and pump as well as the cold feed and vent where it connects.

 

[ragingcat]

Doitall

Pumping over happened 7 to 8 years ago as far as I remember and the plumber a the time extended the vent pipe hire by 1.5 meter by making a loop as there was no headroom in the loft. The original vent pipe was only one foot above the F&E tank.

I think all these years the pump was on No. 1 setting and therefore was not pumping over but as he put it on 2 it started pumping over. We excactly dono tknow as the last plumber who put the new pump had left it on No.3

What he was saying is that the pipe work is badly designed ( More than 25 years by previous owners plumber) as the pipe from the boiler is coming up from the kitchen passing the hot water cylinder up to the pump and from the 3 port valve, is then going in to Hot water Cylinder! He said that he has not seen this layout before and this is what may be causing the airlock!

I cannot tell who is telling the truth. But few plumbers has told me that they need to move the pump in Airing cupboard near the cylinder.

We will see what happens over next 2 days, If it CH shuts off again, I can always stop the cheque in 2 days. The first plumber was a real cowboy as there was no problem with the boiler at all and he wanted £300 to change a boiler part which he will not tell me which part it is!