Powerflushing Advice

[systematic]

Hi there,

We have an old Ravenheat boiler that continually breaks down and gets repaired by BG. We have now bought ourselves a Vaillant Eco Tec 837 but have left it be until the RavenHeat goes bonkers again.

I queried some prices and found someone to do the boiler change (plus flue) for £350.00. I asked if powerflushing was included in this price and he said "no, but a friend of mine runs a power flushing business". I called his friend and asked what type of equipment they use:

Norton Power Flushign Machine?
X300 for 4 - 5 hours
X100 as an inhibitor

The flushing price is £250.00 but if taken with fitting, I could get both done for £540.00

My questions

I don't think this house has ever been powerflushed and I suspect there is alot of crap going through the CH.

What is the proper way of doing this? I read on another thread the following:

1. Before placing the new boiler on, powerflush using X800
2. Swap the boiler and put new one one
3. Powerflush again with X400 hot

Is that the best way?

Cheers for any tips and advice

 

[JohnD]

if it is a dirty old system, flush it and fit a Magnaclean before you have the new boiler fitted. You will be amazed and delighted to see how much black sludge it traps, and keeps on doing it.

Does the powerflush company offer a warranty that it will rectify any dirt found in the system after they have cleaned it?

p.s. the installation price you have been quoted suggests that you are getting a cheap job with no guarantees. Do you have reason to suppose the installer is Gas Safe registered?

 

[Mark Br]

p.s. the installation price you have been quoted suggests that you are getting a cheap job with no guarantees. Do you have reason to suppose the installer is Gas Safe registered?

Exactly my thoughts too. Do you know the quality of their work, it would be a shame to ruin a new boiler for the sake of a few hundred pounds to get the job done properly.

Ps - X300 is a flux cleaner not a sludge remover. Why would your mate suggest using it to clean the carp from your system!!!!

 

[Agile]

Ps - X300 is a flux cleaner not a sludge remover. Why would your mate suggest using it to clean the carp from your system!!!!

Because he is a nupty and has no idea what he is doing? ( Its also cheaper than X800. )

Any customer who buys the boiler themselves is always going to be the type who wants a cheap job done. Most quality installers are reluctants to agee to that anyway so it just leaves the unregistered and poor people who give a cheap price for a cheap job!

We charge £840 to replace a combi so £350 is less than half!

Tony

 

[simond]

Norstrom is a good quality machine and Sentinel chemicals are good.

 

[mickyg]

X300 wont touch the existing muck in the system. I'd look elsewhere.

 

[systematic]

if it is a dirty old system, flush it and fit a Magnaclean before you have the new boiler fitted. You will be amazed and delighted to see how much black sludge it traps, and keeps on doing it.

Does the powerflush company offer a warranty that it will rectify any dirt found in the system after they have cleaned it?

p.s. the installation price you have been quoted suggests that you are getting a cheap job with no guarantees. Do you have reason to suppose the installer is Gas Safe registered?

Fit a Magnaclean - can you link me?

Im not sure if the PF comany offer a warranty but I am sure they will rectify it if any dirt was found afterwards.

The installation price is a good one and one that comes close to another plumbing company (local to me). I found this particular guy/company on MyHammer and has the following credentials:

Liability Insurance,
Company Gladiator; Number: se/4754316
Gas safe/Corgi Registered
City & Guilds Certificate: Certificate in Plumbing Studies
Institute of leadership and management award

His rating on Myhammer shows 30 reviews with an overall rating of 97% and he confirmed that a Gas Safe Certificate will be provided after completion of works.

To me, that sounds reasonable and good (or true) value for money.

I am not going to pay stupid rates like £840 for a combi2combi replacement. The job takes approximately 4 - 8 hours. If we based the job on 4 hours, the rate equates to £210 per hour. If we said 8 hours, the rate is £105 per hour. Did you know British Gas themselves charge £80 per hour for a chargeable rate??? £840 - F That!

From the comments thus far, I think he PF company might need to be reconsidered but the company uses Sentinel chemicals with a Norstorm machine. Perhaps I should enquire if he can use a stronger solution? What do you think?

To provide some clarity, the X300 chemical they were referring is this:

http://www.bhl.co.uk/product/SENTINEL_X300_UNIVERSAL_CLEANSER_1LTR

From the description, it sounds like a good sludge remover and decent central heating cleanser.

 

[Mark Br]

try reading the product info properly - "X300 Universal Cleanser Flushes out flux and installation debris from new indirect central heating systems and those up to 6 months old"

Have your rads and pipework been installed for under 6 months!!!! - didn't think so.

4 hours for an install - yes can be done, rarely is it though. I wouldn't get out of bed for what you expect to pay, but perhaps rates are still more realistic in my part of the world.

 

[systematic]

try reading the product info - "X300 Universal Cleanser Flushes out flux and installation debris from new indirect central heating systems and those up to 6 months old"

Have your rads and pipework been installed for under 6 months!!!! - didn't think so.

4 hours for an install - yes can be done, rarely is it though. I wouldn't get out of bed for what you expect to pay.

The point wasn't the time it took.

The point was the rate taken over 4 OR 8 hours is £130 and £25 per hour MORE than the experts at British Gas. Why the F would I do that?

My mate in London supplied me with a Vaillant Eco Tec 837 with flue yesterday for £820 BRAND NEW SEALED and told me that you shouldn't be paying any more than £450 for a Combi2Combi replacement.

Stay in bed buddy and dream on mate. You reckon I'm gonna go with an independent trader for £840 or (and I can't believe I'm saying this) a cheaper well established company like British Gas.

With regards to the X300, ill just tell the guy to use X800 with the machine. No biggie.

 

[mickyg]

With regards to the X300, ill just tell the guy to use X800 with the machine. No biggie.

if i had to tell someone how to do their job i wouldnt use them in the first place.

 

[Mark Br]

Stay in bed buddy.

I will

 

[systematic]

With regards to the X300, ill just tell the guy to use X800 with the machine. No biggie.

if i had to tell someone how to do their job i wouldnt use them in the first place.

The problem is that I didn't inform this guy about the job. The boiler fitter called him first and told him that I was about to have a boiler fitted and wanted a powerflush done first. I can only assume the flusher, assumed I had a fairly new CH system in place.

Nevertheless, your comments have helped and I will certainly look into it.

 

[simond]

I know you think you've been very canny.

You've bought a boiler from a mate in London, if there is something amiss with it ( not as uncommon as you'd think) who will pay the installer for wasted time? We can't buy an 837 with a flue for under £1k and I buy nearly 100 a year. I think you know what I'm saying.

You are getting one contractor fit the boiler and another to do the system preparation.

So that is three people in the blame game - ignoring Vaillant - if anything goes wrong.

And you'll have a 3 yr shorter warranty than a Vaillant installation partner.

Doesn't sound so clever to me.

 

[systematic]

I know you think you've been very canny.

You've bought a boiler from a mate in London, if there is something amiss with it ( not as uncommon as you'd think) who will pay the installer for wasted time? We can't buy an 837 with a flue for under £1k and I buy nearly 100 a year. I think you know what I'm saying.

You are getting one contractor fit the boiler and another to do the system preparation.

So that is three people in the blame game - ignoring Vaillant - if anything goes wrong.

And you'll have a 3 yr shorter warranty than a Vaillant installation partner.

Doesn't sound so clever to me.

The boiler was a brucey bonus but I got lucky via a classified ad site. How he gets his stuff is beyond me.

I think I have a 2 year warranty with the boiler so if it was faulty, I'd get Vaillant to replace it or sort it out.

The fitter has quoted an extremely reasonable price at £350 and does not perform power flushing services, which subsequently gives me no choice but to find another contractor for system prepping/power flushing.

I am just reading up about filters so my plan of action is:

1. Powerflush with X800
2. Get him to sort out the inhibitor
3. Replace boiler
4. Put a Magnaclean or TF1 filter in place.

No disrespect but I think a combi2combi replacement at £840 is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Whitespirit66]

I know you think you've been very canny.

You've bought a boiler from a mate in London, if there is something amiss with it ( not as uncommon as you'd think) who will pay the installer for wasted time? We can't buy an 837 with a flue for under £1k and I buy nearly 100 a year. I think you know what I'm saying.

You are getting one contractor fit the boiler and another to do the system preparation.

So that is three people in the blame game - ignoring Vaillant - if anything goes wrong.

And you'll have a 3 yr shorter warranty than a Vaillant installation partner.

Doesn't sound so clever to me.

I'm afraid this is one punter who will have to find out the pitfalls of a cheap job for himself. He aint going to listen to you, I',m afraid.

It won't just be the power flusher who needs to be told how to do his job. For a £350 combi swap (I assume materials are extra), he will probably need to tell the plumber how to install the boiler too.

Customers!