Question Time: Kennedy, Howard, Blair...

[ninebob]

Who just saw it then?

Just kicking off the topic for now, going to make a cup of tea then let you know what I think...

 

[david and julie]

Thought they would of thrown the asylum seeker out to be honest.

 

[Richardp]

Thought they would of thrown the asylum seeker out to be honest.

yah! right. not that you've got anything against asylum seekers

 

[ninebob]

It has changed my opinion considerably (and therefore quite possibly my vote). I have always supported labour and was planning to again.

Michael Howard did nothing tonight to persuade me to vote conservative, he avoided every question by slithering out of it or talking about something completely different. Generally came across as slimy.

However, Blair wasn't a vast amount better. He wasn't given a lot of leeway because everybody wanted to talk only about the war, but he didn't come across as "transparent" as I (or he!) would have liked.

So that leaves Charles Kennedy. I was impressed. He came on first and answered every question head on. When asked if he would support another war if Bush asked him to he said "NO". He also voiced his support for proportional representation.

Sadly it's that last point which means I may have to vote Labour instead of Lib Dem. My constituency is so staunchly conservative that only a labour majority might get the sitting Tory MP out. Given proportional representation I would vote for CK and I believe there's a good chance he could win.

 

[david and julie]

Why are you accusing me of disliking asylum seekers Richard? All I have said is I am suprised they didn't chuck him out, I have never seen anybody warned on question time before. I would have said the same about anybody who was acting aggresively and ignoring the hosts requests to be quiet. The man was disrespectful and rude to Michael Howard and also looked volatile in general.

Incidently what PC term is acceptable these days when describing an asylum seeker?

 

[Killemall]

They're all blithering slithering idiots. We want someone who'll kick out the scrounging smelly asylum seekers, execute the scummy muggers, joy riders and drug dealers, tell Europe to go stuff themselves and concentrate on rebulding this country from the inside, rather than wasting cash on keeping up our elaborate 'oh so british' shell, with nothing substantial to hold it up. Every government has made harder for BRITISH people to make a living and easier for some bloody immigrant to wander in and feast off the fat pie.

 

[ninebob]

They're all blithering slithering idiots. We want someone who'll kick out the scrounging smelly asylum seekers, execute the scummy muggers, joy riders and drug dealers, tell Europe to go stuff themselves and concentrate on rebulding this country from the inside, rather than wasting cash on keeping up our elaborate 'oh so british' shell, with nothing substantial to hold it up. Every government has made harder for BRITISH people to make a living and easier for some b****y immigrant to wander in and feast off the fat pie.

Take it you'll be voting BNP then?

 

[Killemall]

Why not. About time someone got rid and prevented further infestations. Fed up with pussying around our poor delicate little visitors.

 

[david and julie]

The BBC should be compelled to give equal coverage to all parties, including the BNP,UKIP or Greens for example. There is no justification in giving only the main parties a platform, how are the electorate supposed to make informed choices otherwise?

Personally I think we need more frank and honest people like Killemall, this PC c**p is killing us. If he wants to vote BNP (he didn't say he does) whats the problem with that? they are a legitimate party.

 

[AdamW]

I have always supported labour and was planning to again.

I'm going to resist the temptation to say "This all proves that voting Labour turns you gay"

I think PR is an interesting issue. We have our history of "first past the post", how did we come by that? I suspect it was invented to ensure that the government of the day has a strong majority, and to reduce the likelihood of a hung parliament. However, is an artificially strong majority really a good idea, if it doesn't fully reflect the wishes of the people?

On the other hand, whoever wins this coming election will do so by a percent or two of the vote (if that). Do we really want 5 years of b*tching and squabbling because we have 251 MPs on one side and 250 on the other? I think you are unlikely to find a government in power who will change the rules though!

Now I am on to hung parliaments, I was discussing the election with some friends at lunch today. One friend reckons that if the Tories win, Labour and Lib Dem will form a coalition government. I think it is highly unlikely as Blair seems to treat Libdems with contempt. But what do you all think?

Did anyone see the Green Party broadcast this evening? First time I have ever seen a totally hot MP. Other than Thatcher of course.

 

[ninebob]

Now I am on to hung parliaments, I was discussing the election with some friends at lunch today. One friend reckons that if the Tories win, Labour and Lib Dem will form a coalition government. I think it is highly unlikely as Blair seems to treat Libdems with contempt. But what do you all think?

The contempt seems to be quite the other way around. CK made it perfectly clear that he would NOT form a coalition government in those circumstances.

EDIT: just re-read you post and realised you said "If the tories win". If that were to happen I don't think Labour would need to form a coalition to be a suitable opposition.

I've still changed my mind though, if not my vote. Like I said, lacking proportional representation as we are, my Labour vote is my only hope of ousting the sitting Tory fool here. Otherwise, I'm "turning coat" to Liberals.

 

[pipme]

Comfortable - self employed in construction ? - watch out !!

Ludwig Ried & Sohn, a Frankfurt tile-laying company in its fourth generation, needs to charge E43.65, or $56.72, an hour to make ends meet, said Ried, its general manager.
But the enlargement of the European Union, which has brought to Frankfurt hundreds of Poles who are willing to work for half that, may now do what depression and war could not, he fears: put the Rieds out of business.
"I'd be happy if we could close Germany's doors right now and wait a while," Ried said.
But don't ask the Poles to apologize.
"Why shouldn't the Poles have more work than the Germans?" said Rafal Boroweic, a Polish tile-layer who came to Frankfurt in July and now lives a 10-minute walk away from the Rieds.
"They're doing good work, and the customers are happy."
Poles like Boroweic, working in Germany sooner than anticipated through an unexpected turn of events, are giving Germans a preview of the lower prices they might enjoy from their new neighbors, but also the tenacious competition they can pose.
Frankfurt had roughly 400 registered tile-layers before EU expansion but added 643 more in the subsequent eight months and 200 this year.
Over all, according to ZDH, the Berlin-based group that collects countrywide statistics, 4,441 self-employed people from the new EU countries began working in Germany last year, mostly in construction.
And in short order, Ried's business felt the heat.
After the construction boom following German unification in 1990 had turned into a bust by the end of the decade, Ried, 43, steered the company away from public contracts toward private work. Two years ago, he even negotiated a wage reduction with his 20 employees, a tight-knit group who understood the need to stay competitive.
But these days, Ried has a sheaf of papers that testify to his firm's increasingly beleaguered state. One sheet shows how his bid of E 126,000 for a job tiling a hospital lost to a competitor willing to do it for E 74,000.
"Anyone who knows this business knows this price is simply not possible," Ried said.
But for diligent Poles, used to living on less, it may be.
The EU's enlargement opened Boroweic's eyes to the idea of a better life outside Poland, and he first learned of the possibilities in Frankfurt through friends. The 30-year-old, who lives in a modest apartment with his girlfriend and child, had already earned an engineering degree from the University of Krakow after attending a technical school for the construction trades.
Yet work in Poland, which netted him £ 300 in a good month, came only in fits and starts. Around the time he was facing work as a door-to-door salesman, Boroweic left Poland, arriving in Frankfurt on July 15, 2004, and registered as a tile-layer.
"It's not much money in the beginning, but eventually you can earn very well," he said.
After distributing his mobile phone number widely, work picked up. A great month brought Boroweic E 3,000, a good one E 1,000. He is coy about how much he charges per hour, saying it depends on the job, but leaves no doubt his price is less than the E 43.65 that Ried commands. The Frankfurt trade association estimates that the Poles get roughly half what the Germans do.
But other Poles in Frankfurt feed the conviction among Germans like Ried that shenanigans are rife.
Authorities are unlikely to charge someone like Boroweic with breaking the law. He registered with the Frankfurt association, keeps paperwork to document sales taxes, and files German tax returns. He speaks excellent German, and advertises his telephone number, as one might expect an independent businessman to do.

Exec style incomes for artisans may soon be a thing of the past when capable people used to £300 per month salaries start waving their Euro-Passports at the UK gateway..... Competition and the very icy wind of that, is soon to raise it's head, beyond our industrial wastelands... the inevitable readjustment is coming the wake up call is coming and no one is immune....

 

[AdamW]

[The contempt seems to be quite the other way around. CK made it perfectly clear that he would NOT form a coalition government in those circumstances.

Glad to hear it! I would be interested to see though, it is pretty noble to pass up the opportunity to be 20% of the cabinet in the hope that one day your party (probably after you have stepped down) will come to power. Coalition governments are surprisingly common in other countries, Slovakia has a 4-party coalition in power at the moment!

EDIT: just re-read you post and realised you said "If the tories win". If that were to happen I don't think Labour would need to form a coalition to be a suitable opposition.

Ah, but that's the point, a party can get more seats than any other individual party, yet still not come to power! The main 3 parties account for about 95% of the vote, it is quite possible we could end up in a situation where we have figures like:

Tory: 300 seats
Labour: 260 seats
Lib Dem: 50 seats
Other toss: 50 seats

This is a hung parliament (no party has more than 50% of the seats).

Now, as you can see, if Lab and LD were to form a coalition, they would have 310 seats thus giving them the majority, with the Tories having another 5 years on opposition. However, then you can start to get a bit Eastern European about it all. Tories might band together with UKIP, who might have 12 seats, thus giving THEM an advantage and so forth. Four party coalitions are not uncommon around the world. I believe the Queen still has the power to allow the minority winner to come to power even if a majority coalition is formed.

Coalitions are damned unsporting though.

 

[ninebob]

Ah, but that's the point, a party can get more seats than any other individual party, yet still not come to power! The main 3 parties account for about 95% of the vote, it is quite possible we could end up in a situation where we have figures like:

Tory: 300 seats
Labour: 260 seats
Lib Dem: 50 seats
Other toss: 50 seats

This is a hung parliament (no party has more than 50% of the seats).

I didn't actually realise that was the case. If you're right, then it's damned near certain that we're going to get a hung parliament this time - so if no coalitions are formed, what happens next?

 

[felix]

I'm all in favour of the BNP getting TV time. If you want them to hang themselves you must first give them the rope. This same rule should apply to anybody who calls themselves a political organisation. If you deny them the right to speak you hang yourself instead. Does anybody else remember the PIE?

PS: I can see why they changed their name from the National Front - too many of their members couldn't pronounce it - but I'm not sure that BNP is much better. "B M, er no, B N, yeah B N, er B N er er, oh b****x!"