RAAC

[Brigadier]

Dealing with government must be a nightmare as they really haven't a clue

Nothing of the sort.
The government know far more than you; they consult with shedloads of advisers (internal, industry, unions, lobby groups).

The misconception that you are operating under, @bod , is that the government make decisions based on the information in front of them.

My experience; the gov. decide what they want to do, go through a charade of a consultation process, then do what they want anyway.

(A senior adviser once told a friend and colleague of mine - on another built-environment policy decision, admittedly - "we have a duty to consult; we do not have a duty to take any notice")

The government know far more than you do: that is how they are able to spin their (pre-formed) decision.
A lot of thought and expense goes into stuff like "kicking the can down the road".

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Nothing of the sort.
The government know far more than you; they consult with shedloads of advisers (internal, industry, unions, lobby groups).

The misconception that you are operating under, @bod , is that the government make decisions based on the information in front of them.

My experience; the gov. decide what they want to do, go through a charade of a consultation process, then do what they want anyway.

(A senior adviser once told a friend and colleague of mine - on another built-environment policy decision, admittedly - "we have a duty to consult; we do not have a duty to take any notice")

The government know far more than you do: that is how they are able to spin their (pre-formed) decision.
A lot of thought and expense goes into stuff like "kicking the can down the road".

I've started a new thread about my girls school so as not to go off subject anymore.

So that I can answer part of your post

 

[JohnD]

I suppose that a party with an aversion to public spending and public services will sometimes dig itself into a hole.

Fine words will not dig them out.



"But that Slater, former permanent secretary at the Department of Education, has now put the blame firmly not just on successive Conservative governments since 2018, but on Sunak in particular turns what was already going to be a difficult crisis for the government into a major personal one for the prime minister.

That Sunak cut the budget for rebuilding schools in 2021, years after the government had been told about the problems the reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete (Raac) had created in the schools estate, is going to be the story of the week, the month, or for however long the Raac crisis upsets parents and disrupts education.

It puts a difficult asterisk on a period that Conservative MPs hoped was one of their big assets going into the next election: Sunak’s tenure as chancellor."

School building closures are political disaster for Rishi Sunak’s government | Financial Times

Former top civil servant’s claim PM had cut funding to fix school problems when chancellor makes it a personal problem too

www.ft.com

 

[Roy Bloom]

Can we really hold those responsible. They more than likely are dead Roy


What do you know Roy about
Design
Suitable/Unsuitable materials
Appointing Suitable contractors

When I retired (about 20 years ago) I was project manager for IT systems, which included anyalysis of requirements, design, procurement and introduction of IT systems including hardware throughout the organisation.

What do I know about design, suitable materials or suitable contractors?

 

[JohnD]

The politicians set the budgets....

Can we really hold those responsible. They more than likely are dead Roy

Sunak isn't.

 

[Roy Bloom]

A couple of misunderstandings going on; Raac didn't have a design life of 30 years when it was installed. When it was discovered that some raac buildings had problems, the BRE predicted that in certain circumstances some raac panels may have a design life of only 30 years. That's not the same as saying raac buildings had a design life of 30 years. Some 30 year old buildings are fine and showing no signs of excessive deterioration.

The variables are poor workmanship on installation, poor manufacturing of some panels (it was found that in some panels the reinforcement didn't properly reach the point loading areas) and poor maintenance. Another factor is that some buildings that have been fairly well maintained also have issues because of the selection of re-roofing materials. Certain roofing materials increase the expansion and contraction of the roof panels and that has caused thermal cracking in some cases.

I agree there have been a few cases of insufficient bearing surfaces, but the main problem is poor maintenance of roof coverings (or use in humid conditions).
This was caused or exacerbated by insufficient funding for maintenance of the buildings, compounded by budget driven decisions rathe than safety and security decisions.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Sunak isn't.

But as ex-Chancellor he evidently can't count.

Jonathan Slater said a 2021 spending review by then-chancellor Rishi Sunak saw the number of schools which could be rebuilt each year halved.

School repair budgets cut despite risk warning over concrete - ex-civil servant

Rishi Sunak says it is wrong to say his budget cuts led to concrete issues at schools.

www.bbc.com

Mr Slater - who was permanent secretary at the Department for Education (DfE) between May 2016 and August 2020 - said investigations had led civil servants to recommend between 300 to 400 schools needed repairs a year and the department then requested Treasury funding to cover 200 a year.
"I thought we'd get it but the actual decision made in 2021 was to halve down from 100 a year to 50 year," he said.

However, Mr Sunak said he had announced a programme to rebuild 500 schools over 10 years in 2020, equating to 50 schools a year,

So according to our current PM, ex-Chancellor, 50 per year is not half of 100 per year, (which was only a quarter of what was needed anyway.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Yes, although some of that's hindsight as we now know how long kids were out of school and we didn't know ahead of time how long we would have. Plus the health and safety of workers.

These kids being stuck in porta cabins and working remotely is entirely avoidable and the extra costs for delay are a result of failing to budget and plan properly.

A lot of badly run organisations can never find the funds for preventative maintenance but can always find far more to fix things once broken.

There's a subtle difference:
School Building and refurbishment is captial expenditure, from borrowing.
The current "spend whatever is needed" is coming from existing budgets, i.e. operational expenditure, funded by taxes, etc.

 

[JohnD]

The current "spend whatever is needed" is coming from existing budgets, i.e. operational expenditure, funded by taxes, etc.

So they could find the money by sacking experienced teachers and getting some unqualified beginners in, on minimum wage.

 

[blup]

Nothing lasts for ever but raac seems to have a much shorter lifespan than other materials. Dishi must have known that when cutting the budget. About time the bean counters were held to account

Blup

 

[JohnD]

I expect he held the opinion that public spending is unnecessary waste. Let someone else decide how to cope with the cut.

Remember when Theresa May cut the police, and swore blind that police have no effect on crime?

I wonder if Sunak went to a State school?

No I don't

Find out about Rishi Sunak's education and what schools he went to

The new PM attended public schools.

metro.co.uk

 

[JohnD]

Shock news:

Sunak says "not my fault"

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Sunak isn't.

Nore is Blair.

 

[JohnD]

Nore is Blair.

Thatcher is, though. Or do you only want to go back 16 years?

The current sudden crisis emerged more recently.

 

[Brigadier]

Nore is Blair.

Who instigated "Building schools for the future"?