Read on and pass on!

[Hysteresis]

So JohnD, do you now do the honourable thing and accept in writing that the evidence of throwing money at immigrants is not misleading, untrue and not supported by evidence and is now unequivocally proven.
The £5,000,000 per year thrown at Qatada to protect him is I think QED.
Or maybe your argument will be that the press story is also wrong .
Or maybe a good argument for you will be Qatada is not an immigrant.

 

[Hysteresis]

And more Truths, and evidence for the bold JohnD

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Abu-Qatada-new-home-taxpayers-expense.html

Maybe we do throw money at immigrants like there is no tomorrow after all, just how much substantiated evidence does this character JohnD want ??????

 

[Bosswhite]

Abu Qatada is being held in Custody by this Government, he has not been convicted of any crime in this Country, so all the time he in Custody him and his Family have to be looked after at the Tax Payers Expense, the blame lays with the Government they should either have charged him and if found guilty sent him to Prison or released him.
To exdradite him to a Country for a trial that practises Torture is against Human Rights.

 

[calorific]

Abu Qatada is being held in Custody by this Government, he has not been convicted of any crime in this Country, so all the time he in Custody him and his Family have to be looked after at the Tax Payers Expense, the blame lays with the Government they should either have charged him and if found guilty sent him to Prison or released him.
To exdradite him to a Country for a trial that practises Torture is against Human Rights.

Trouble is that it's a bit like a venomous snake. The snake might not have done anything yet, but if you release into a populated area then it is likely to cause havoc and death. So what do you do?

 

[JohnD]

I gather Hysterisis thinks that spending money on detention and trial is the same as "throwing money at immigrants"

I wonder if he would consider that prosecuting a Pensioner accused of a crime was the same as "throwing money at Pensioners," or if holding extradition hearings for UK-born computer hackers was the same as "throwing money at computer hackers"

 

[calorific]

Bit of an obfuscation there John? What is your point precisely?

 

[JohnD]

Bit of an obfuscation there John? What is your point precisely?

Hysteris alleges, without evidence, that the country is throwing money at immigrants.

He considers that an example of this is a long and expensive legal process to decide if a person accused of committing crimes in one foreign country should be extradited to stand trial in another foreign country.

The £5,000,000 per year thrown at Qatada to protect him is I think QED

I don't agree that this is an example of throwing money at immigrants. The fact that I have not seen evidence of the figure of £5,000,000 per year can wait.

To try to discover if Hysterisis is following a logical process, I gave examples of two other legal processes, and ask if he considers that money spent on these is an example of throwing money at groups to which the people involved belong.

 

[calorific]

Thanks. Apart from the obvious differences of immigrants not contributing to the UK pot in comparison with the other groups you refer to, I take it that your other key point is that a case involving 1 does not imply a generalisation follows.

 

[JohnD]

And of course, if you were accused of a crime, and the country spent a million on your trial or hearing, would you feel that we had "thrown money at you?"

Would you feel different if it was the case of a UK-born sponger who had taken advantage of the state-funded education, and the National Health, and was on benefits, but had never done a day's work in his life or paid a penny in Income Tax or National Insurance?

What if it was an immigrant who was educated and qualified abroad, but got permission to work in the UK, where he did 60 hours a week on the minimum wage, and paid full NI and Income Tax contributions?

 

[Hysteresis]

JohnD, I give you evidence and you refute it, it is in the news and the press, but you don't accept the evidence.
Qatada is a convicted terrorist in Jorden, he is a named by our government as a threat to the UK national security, and we still throw money for his defence,he is already convicted. How much more evidence do you want.
You keep your deflection tactics going to the point of tedium to justify your apologetic nature.
We will never agree even with evidence staring you in the face, so I find it pointless continuing with this thread so I am just going to sign out.
I have made my point but unfortunately you haven't.

 

[JohnD]

He thinks that proves the government throws money at immigrants?

What nonsense.

 

[calorific]

He thinks that proves the government throws money at immigrants?

What nonsense.

Can't talk about generalities but I have first hand evidence about one immigrant who has paid £0 tax into the UK and has had all of her living costs paid by the UK taxpayer and has given birth to 2 additional children (to add to the one who came over with her) at the expense of the NHS, with subsequent child benefits being given to her. The fathers are not around and have nothing to do with her nor their children.

Anecdotal I know, but I'd be surprised if she was the only person in this situation.

 

[JohnD]

Would you feel different if it was the case of a UK-born sponger who had taken advantage of the state-funded education, and the National Health, and was on benefits, but had never done a day's work in his life or paid a penny in Income Tax or National Insurance?

What if it was an immigrant who was educated and qualified abroad, but got permission to work in the UK, where he did 60 hours a week on the minimum wage, and paid full NI and Income Tax contributions?

 

[calorific]

Would you feel different if it was the case of a UK-born sponger who had taken advantage of the state-funded education, and the National Health, and was on benefits, but had never done a day's work in his life or paid a penny in Income Tax or National Insurance?

So it's OK for someone not born here to do the same?

What if it was an immigrant who was educated and qualified abroad, but got permission to work in the UK, where he did 60 hours a week on the minimum wage, and paid full NI and Income Tax contributions?

But it wasn't in the case that I cite

 

[JohnD]

So it's OK for someone not born here to do the same?


... But it wasn't in the case that I cite

I'm asking you. Is it the behaviour you criticise, or the country of origin?