Recommendations for New Oil Burner - Equivalent to Riello G2SX (419T55)

[polygraph]

Hi,

I recently moved to a property with an ancient Firebird Olympic 50-82.

It's developed a fault where on start up the fan motor runs continuously but the burner will not proceed to ignition. It will stay in this condition until you turn it off and it does not enter lock out - the fan just keeps going and going...

I know it will go into lock out under certain conditions, as we managed to run out of oil 2 weeks ago (a long story involving a faulty tank gauge and the sellers declaration that the tank was 3/4 full).

Had a heating engineer come out last weekend and apart from making us look like idiots for running out of oil, he said he had changed the solenoid coil "just in case".

A couple of days and 1300 litres of Kerosene later - the boiler fires up for the first time and runs for 5 days straight until this morning.

On inspection of the burner, I'm pretty sure he hasn't changed the solenoid as it was quite grubby - unless he substituted it for a second hand unit. Whether the fault could be related to this part change (or not) I don't know.

Anyway, I'm going to perform some further checks using Riello's Fault Finding Chart but if I end up having to replace the control box etc. I might consider buying a new burner unit instead.

Can anyone suggest a replacement for the currently fitted Riello G2SX (419T55)?

Many thanks,

polygraph.

 

[oilhead]

Classic symptom of faulty photocell.
If you remove the photo cell from the control box and the burner lights then locks out, that is likely your problem.
Try rhat before replacing burner.

 

[polygraph]

Thanks for the reply oilhead.

On Riello's website they list the following possible causes for the fan motor running but the burner not going to ignition:

1. Photocell, faulty (or seeing light.) To test disconnect the photocell from the control box. Attempt a start sequence. If the burner lights (after 12 secs) and goes out, change photocell.

2. Solenoid coil. Test resistance readings for 100 Ohms (+/- 10%.) If out of limits, change coil.

3. Fan Motor.Test voltage coming from white wire to control box (50 volts +/- 3v) Note; black wire neutral, blue wire live 230v. If voltage out of limits change fan motor.

4. Control box. If the above three items are satisfactory then consider the control box may be at fault (no tests are available for the control box.)

So I removed the control box, removed the photocell, reinstalled without it in place = same symptoms with no attempt to fire and no lockout.

I've pre-emptively ordered a new one for £22 (and a solenoid coil for £16) as these were cheap enough to eliminate.

The fan motor and control box are a bit more pricey, so not so keen to chance it on replacing those without being more confident they're to blame.

Any opinion on the cheap Chinese Riello 350SE Control Boxes? They can be had for around £50 if you are prepared to wait.

polygraph

 

[Exedon]

As above check photocell
In all honesty I wouldn't be throwing a lot of money at a nearly 30 year old firebird.
Control box? If you really do need one genuine one around £70 delivered next day.
Also you can't make any meaningful adjustments to a oil burner without test/combustion analysis equipment.

 

[polygraph]

Thanks Exedon - fingers crossed it's the photocell.

 

[polygraph]

Quick update - sadly neither a new photocell nor a new solenoid coil have fixed the issue, so this suggests there's an issue with the voltage supply from the fan motor or the control box has had it.

I'll test the voltage from the fan motor with a multimeter later.

 

[polygraph]

Tested the voltage coming from the white wire of the fan motor and it's reading exactly what it should - 50 volts.

Tested the old and new photocells using the ohms resistance setting on the multimeter - getting a high resistance when covered and low when pointed at a light source, so think both are functional.

A brand new control box arrived this morning (£65 delivered) but it's made no difference.

Checked and remade all connections in case of a loose wire.

Is there anything else in the ignition sequence which would prevent firing but not make the burner go into lock out?

polygraph

 

[cjcoffin]

Does it try and ignite? I have a Riello burner from 1995, you can clearly hear the buzz from the ignition transformer and spark after the initial purge (?12 secs). Don't know why it wouldn't go to lockout if your (working) photocell doesn't detect a flame after that though.

Delayed airlock following the running out of oil?

 

[polygraph]

The fan starts whirring then after about 9 seconds I hear what I believe is the solenoid clicking, but that's it. Fan stays on permanently after that with no attempt at ignition.

When the boiler worked previously, I would hear the buzzing shortly before ignition but it doesn't seem to get far enough into the process now.

Is the ignition spark provided by the control box in combination with the 50v supply from the fan motor? As far as I understand it there's no point in me replacing the capacitor as the fan motor otherwise functions correctly, although it's a cheapish part so I could take a risk on it.

I have a twin pipe system and the boiler ran perfectly for a number of days following the re-fuel, so I would be surprised if it's air.

 

[cjcoffin]

IIRC the control board provides 230V to ignition transformer after the initial purge timeout. Then if the photocell does not detect a flame before a further timeout it goes to the lockout state. It sounds as if this timer is not even starting so allowing the motor to run but I cannot think of an external reason, and you have replaced the control unit. Unless the new unit has now suffered the same failure mode as the old one from some external cause but that is rather far-fetched.

I am wondering if there is some additional control like a hidden overtemp thermostat which is inhibiting all this. Have you located a wiring diagram for your particular Riello? Mine is not exactly the same (for one thing the fan and pump are on the opposite sides). Previously I had a Potteron with Danfoss controls but it was pretty much the same.

The capacitor provides a phase shift to one of the motor windings so if it fails I think the motor will not run at all. I am guessing the motor winding has the 50V tapping to provide a convenient low voltage supply to the control board and if that is working too then the motor sounds OK.

 

[polygraph]

I believe the wiring for the burner is what's printed on the card inside the bottom of the control unit.

 

[polygraph]

This is the very basic control panel which has a flow temperature thermostat and a resettable high temperature limit thermostat. If the latter is triggered I should see an orange neon lit, but resetting it seems to have no effect in any case.

 

[Johntheo5]

Remove the burner (ensure boiler isolated) and remove the flame tube, there are two set screws holding it on, note: there should be a drain hole on the bottom (6 oclock) ensure the flame tube is reinstalled with the drain hole at the bottom. When removed, just wipe down the porcelain electrodes with a bit of rag soaked with WD40 or whatever, check the electrode gap and positioning, should be like my Riello G5X.

 

[polygraph]

You can probably tell from the photos in my first post, but the red feed and green return hoses are rigid. Not likely to leak any time soon, but will need disconnecting fully before I can remove the burner so probably a job for the weekend now.

I think I'm at the stage where it needs to come off for an inspection anyway, so I'll follow your recommendation and check the electrodes.

Are they likely to be perished or do they mostly get by with just being cleaned?

 

[cjcoffin]

You can probably tell from the photos in my first post, but the red feed and green return hoses are rigid. Not likely to leak any time soon, but will need disconnecting fully before I can remove the burner so probably a job for the weekend now.

I think I'm at the stage where it needs to come off for an inspection anyway, so I'll follow your recommendation and check the electrodes.

Are they likely to be perished or do they mostly get by with just being cleaned?

Last for ever unless cracked. I use meths as it does not leave any residue. If very dirty you can use fine wire wool as well but clean away all traces. But if you can't hear the buzz it may not fix it. If you need to bend the electrodes to set the gap use a second set of pliers so you don't bend them at the insulators.