Removing a socket from a ring main

Just to throw another idea in the mix, whats on the other side of the partition?

If its a room, are you able to push the cables out from this side of the partition and place a socket on the other (more suitable and compliant) side?
 
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If its a room, are you able to push the cables out from this side of the partition and place a socket on the other (more suitable and compliant) side?
Wouldn't help with the concealed cable zone issue.
This raises as interesting question, which I've often pondered. The OP's situation (with the breeze blocks behind), is more complicated, but what if it were simply a standard 'thin' stud partition between rooms (without one being able to see both sides of the wall simultaneously), and with the cable entering the cavity of the partition (from under-floor void above) roughly half-way between the two sides of the partition (as is often/usually the case)?

If, as unclebob1 suggested, one pushed the end of the cable through to the other side of such a partition, and installed a socket there, it would not create a safe zone on the 'original side' (since both sides cannot be seen simultaneously), but it would on it's own side - so the question is 'which side of the partition is the cable on?' - and hence whether it is in a safe zone or not?

Kind Regards, John
 
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If the partition is thin, and the accessory cannot be seen from both sides then on one side there is no zone, and the cables would need to go into earthed conduit.
 
If the partition is thin, and the accessory cannot be seen from both sides then on one side there is no zone, and the cables would need to go into earthed conduit.
That was also my feeling, but I wonder whether people often actually think about this? When I said 'thin' I was really talking about a fairly standard 'ubiquitous' stud partition, of '100mm and a bit' thickness. The impression I get is that most people think only about the side of the partition they are dealing with, and don't consider the fact that it's often (usually?) probably impossible for them to be sure than none of the cable is <50mm from the other side, where (if both sides can't be seen simultaneously) there is usually not going to be a safe zone.

Kind Regards, John.
 
Not been paying that much attention. But is Bas saying that the phase 'where the location of the accessory, point or switchgear can be determined from the reverse side' doesn't apply unless you have transparent walls?

Is this a criticism of the words chosen? Or what?

Just interested...
 
No - near enough to a doorway/opening/etc to be able to determine where the accessory is on the reverse side is OK.

I'm assuming that that would not be the case with the OP's range cooker.
 
Good. Because 'and the accessory cannot be seen from both sides' didn't convey that to me.
 
Good. Because 'and the accessory cannot be seen from both sides' didn't convey that to me.
Did your problem perhaps arise because BAS did not repeat precisely the words I had used. I wrote
.. since both sides [of the partition] cannot be seen simultaneously...
... which maybe conveyed my meaning slightly better??

Kind Regards, John
 
No, that's just as bad. You would either need a mirror or eyes 200mm apart. Is that what you meant?
 
No, that's just as bad. You would either need a mirror or eyes 200mm apart. Is that what you meant?
I think one is probably allowed to move one's head a little from side to side, to make up for the lack of distance between one's eyes! Now back in proximity with my BGB (I was working from memory before), I can tell you that what 522.6.101 actually says is "Where the location of the accessory etc. can be determined from the reverse side...". That's pretty vague, and I think probably allows for a person standing in a doorway and moving their head around a bit, as well as various other strategies for 'determining'.

Whether it achieves anything much is a different matter. The person with a drill in his hand may think to look for electrical accessories on 'his' side of a wall, but I doubt that many will think to go exploring on the other side!

Kind Regards, John
 
No, that's just as bad. You would either need a mirror or eyes 200mm apart. Is that what you meant?
I think one is probably allowed to move one's head a little from side to side, to make up for the lack of distance between one's eyes!
Ah, this must be a new meaning of the word 'simultaneously' that I haven't previously encountered.

Now back in proximity with my BGB (I was working from memory before), I can tell you that what 522.6.101 actually says is "Where the location of the accessory etc. can be determined from the reverse side...".
Yes, I think you'll find that's what I said above. And I don't even have a green book.

That's pretty vague, and I think probably allows for a person standing in a doorway and moving their head around a bit, as well as various other strategies for 'determining'.
It probably does, but neither of you said that.

Whether it achieves anything much is a different matter. The person with a drill in his hand may think to look for electrical accessories on 'his' side of a wall, but I doubt that many will think to go exploring on the other side!

Maybe, maybe not. I was only concerned with novel interpretations of well established rules.
 

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