Rendering quote

[Micilin]

I have doubled up on mesh when rendering on stud work (ie. dormer windows) but I tacked building paper on to the stud work with clouts( then over-lapped the mesh about six inches) on top of the paper that way the mortar doesn't fill the cavity between studs. If stainless mesh is used it is very expensive!!!!!

It is stupidly expesive, Roy!

But the client needs to be aware of the options. I would think that ordinary eml with a building paper or polythene backing, and waterproofer in the pr ick coat and scratch coat will be fine for years, with proper weather proofing.

 

[Micilin]

I have doubled up on mesh when rendering on stud work (ie. dormer windows) but I tacked building paper on to the stud work with clouts( then over-lapped the mesh about six inches) on top of the paper that way the mortar doesn't fill the cavity between studs. If stainless mesh is used it is very expensive!!!!!

It is stupidly expesive, Roy!

But the client needs to be aware of the options. I would think that ordinary eml with a building paper or polythene backing, and waterproofer in the pr ick coat and scratch coat will be fine for years, with proper weather proofing.

I normally use rib lath for rendering , not eml.

 

[roughcaster]

If,, as the lads were saying he had fixed polythene/felt etc onto the stud work first,, and then the mesh, that would have been the correct way to do it, anything to seal/cover the stud/woodwork, i've even brushed on thick bitumin paint. Doing it the way he has,, you now run the risk of the render cracking at every point where the render is touching the studwork, due to the timber swelling up with the moisture from the scratch coat, plus as Micilin said, the overlapping joints in the mesh should be tied at intervals with wire, to tighten it up along the joint.

 

[Micilin]

If,, as the lads were saying he had fixed polythene/felt etc onto the stud work first,, and then the mesh, that would have been the correct way to do it, anything to cover the stud/woodwork Doing it the way he has,, you now run the risk of the render cracking at every point where the render is touching the studwork, due to the timber swelling up with the moisture from the scratch coat, plus as Micilin said, the overlapping joints in the mesh should be tied with wire, to tighten it up along the joint.

Lads, is it worth taking off the mesh and refixing because -

1- you can put something behind it , protecting timber, keeping cavity clean and making rendering eaier as well as saving material?

2- You can lap and tie the sheets properly

3 - If you were going to cover with another layer of mesh, re doing the first one instead might be a cheaper alternative, although it will take a liitle longer.

 

[jrplastering]

heu guys i know i havent bin envolved in this topic but i have bin reading it as its bin updated, i agree with mic i would take it down and do it again properly with the building paper applied first,
i have done this many times and have always used ss mesh i know its expensive but it not only offers longer life but peace of mind (although the material has always bin supplied buy builders) ss fixings and tie the lapped joints then render and youll have a puckker job.
im afraid to say i would also get rid of the current renderer you have and hire someone who does know what he is doin, this guy clearly does not know what he is doing and is trying to avoid the fact buy chargeing you 1000 more and doin unnessacerry work.
as has already bin said he is "haveing a go" at your expense and youll pay for that in the long run one way or anouther.
JRP

 

[PikeyDIY]

Stainless mesh is out of the question - its 5 times the price, so instead of £300 it's £1500.

NHBC do say to put a strip of dpc between each batten and the mesh, to protect from the swelling mentioned by rouchcaster, but I forgot to do it

Not entirely sure how I'd go about taking it off without ruining it tbh, so from that point of view attaching another layer of mesh seems the most obvious thing to do - and an extra £1000 for this guy's labour is STILL cheaper than buying stainless mesh!

I cant upload photos tonight on this little computer, will do tomorrow morning

 

[roy c]

Stainless mesh is out of the question - its 5 times the price, so instead of £300 it's £1500.

NHBC do say to put a strip of dpc between each batten and the mesh, to protect from the swelling mentioned by rouchcaster, but I forgot to do it

Not entirely sure how I'd go about taking it off without ruining it tbh, so from that point of view attaching another layer of mesh seems the most obvious thing to do - and an extra £1000 for this guy's labour is STILL cheaper than buying stainless mesh!


But it wont be "Cheaper" in the long run mucka

 

[PikeyDIY]

Here's a few photos:

Wall construction - there is a 50mm cavity between the face of the Tyvek and the mesh, formed by horizontal battens at 600mm centres (which are screwed to the main studs) and vertical battens at ~300mm centres which are screwed to the horizontal battens. The mesh is stapled to the battens at about 5" or 6" centres:

Untitled

• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

To counter the fact that a) you all seem to be saying we havent overlapped the mesh enough and b) we forgot the dpm strips to isolate the battens, and some of you think we should have used stainless mesh, I think putting on a second layer of mesh is probably advisable anyway. It's only going to cost another £300 and wont take all that long for me and my girlfriend to put up.

This is the bit he managed to do, filled all the way back to the Tyvek with render:

Untitled

• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

So we broke all that out before it set:

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• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

And this is the bit he did on a double layer of mesh, which seemed to work far more effectively. You cant see it in this picture obviously, but there is a clear cavity maintained behind the battens, which is what we need for the house to work properly:

Untitled

• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

I didnt realise that his original quote for a scratch coat and a top coat was not valid for this form of construction, had I known that maybe this wouldnt have happened, but a quote of £3850 instead of £2850 is still cheaper than the one we had for a polymer throughcoloured render (£4500), and is still ok in terms of price per square metre really.

He gave me a rough estimate of 2 people + a labourer for three days of £800, plus materials about £200 = £1000 to do the base coat on a double layer of mesh, then he would proceed with the quote as before, ie two further coats on top of the base coat.

 

[Micilin]

How is the next coat going to key to that?

Th beads don't look very clever, and it looks like you'll be taking a lump of render out of the drains as well as the cavity.

Also is that a brickwork plinth?

 

[Micilin]

How is the next coat going to key to that?

Deep breath.........

The long and the short of it is that the guy you have got to do the job does not know what he is doing.

There is no way of dressing it up any differently.

It's your money, your house.

 

[PikeyDIY]

The bead in the picture of us breaking out the bad render has been distorted (by me with my crowbar), so dont go on that particularly - the rest of the house looks ok to me.

The mesh pattern is visible through the render on the double-meshed bit, I guess it would key to that? No?

It is a brickwork plinth, yes. Why?

We are looking at alternative quotes from people who have experience of this type of construction. We're also considering doing it ourselves (then at least if we cock it up it wont have cost us anything ) If anyone on here is localish to us (Cheltenham) you're more than welcome to come and give us a quote.

 

[Micilin]

The bead in the picture of us breaking out the bad render has been distorted (by me with my crowbar), so dont go on that particularly - the rest of the house looks ok to me.

The mesh pattern is visible through the render on the double-meshed bit, I guess it would key to that? No?

It is a brickwork plinth, yes. Why?

We are looking at alternative quotes from people who have experience of this type of construction. We're also considering doing it ourselves (then at least if we cock it up it wont have cost us anything ) If anyone on here is localish to us (Cheltenham) you're more than welcome to come and give us a quote.

*****, I'm not trying to be stir up trouble , honestly - just don't like seeing you pay out money for a job that could be better.

The coat of render should have a physical key on it - eg using a scratcher to put lines in it. If you render onto render without some form of key, it will come away. If he has not keyed it, then I'm afraid he is not able to render.

 

[PikeyDIY]

That was his justification for needing three coats rather than two. He said to me "look theres no way I can scratch that, so I'll have to do three coats"

So what you're saying is that his first coat should stick out more and then be scratched? What is a 'pr1ck' coat then? Im confused

 

[roy c]

Well for a start he should have started rendering in the top right corner (if he is right handed) and and worked his way across, also after it had picked up he should have scratched it with wavy lines to key the next coat. And that gulley on the drains should be well covered up. I am with Micilin on this, the guy hasn't got a clue , it is far too much of a professionals job for you and your girl-friend to have a go at it. So get rid of "your man" and get someone in who can do it for you .and ask him if you can labour for him and you might cut your costs down.

 

[PikeyDIY]

It would cost more in terms of me taking time off work than it would save us on the cost of his labourer (£40/day), so that's not really an option. But good idea anyway, thats what I'm doing with our electrician (but he works saturdays )