Replacement Battery

[securespark]

Recently bought an Exide from Tayna as it was more reasonably priced

My thinking exactly!

If pennies did not need pinching, I'd go for Bosch or Varta without hesitation.

 

[Avocet]

During Colvid the cars were not used much, but the car still contacts Jaguar and runs things even when switched off, so the battery slowly discharges.

I found some completely flat batteries when moving house, and tried to recharge them, one failed, but around three recovered, but the smart battery charger will not charge a battery under around 7 volt as it assumes it's a 6 volt battery, and at around 15 volt it auto turns off, as it assumes the battery is disconnected, so only way to charge a completely flat battery is to connect it in parallel to a good battery.

This allows the charger to work, and since interested I plugged the charger into an energy monitor so I could see what happened over time.

So to start with the charger toped up the good battery, then turned the charge rate down to zero, with a few blips, when the good battery had slightly self discharged, but the discharged battery seemingly was doing nothing, this went on for around 10 days, then as if a switch had been flicked, the battery charged and the energy monitor showed it had accepted around it's full AH capacity. This was then repeated with other batteries found, so not a one off.

The point of the story is it takes a long time for a sulphated battery to recover, and the same applies to a part sulphated battery, so every so often I will put the smart charger on the cars battery to remove the build up of sulphur on the plates for around a week, once a vehicle battery has been discharged, the alternator is simply not running for long enough to fully recharge it in most cases, we would need to be doing some silly mileage to have the engine running for that long.

The Jag is easy, if battery fully charged the engine stops at junctions, if it does not stop at junctions, I know it needs a charge, the other cars I normally do after doing the Jag, often only leave on charge a day or two, not the full 10 days, but since retiring I simply don't use the cars enough to keep them charged.

As to selling names, and parts of a company, yes some parts of the British Leyland Group were bought and the name continues, but only the name, I have a bottle of Lucas upper cylinder lubricant made in the USA by Lucas oil products inc. Clearly not the Joseph Lucas we all knew those years ago. The Lucas trademark is currently owned by ZF Friedrichshafen. It though it's life changed with links with CAV and Bosch and combined and split many times, so hard to now work out what bits are what.

But we are talking about the name, not the product, and my updates to my Lucas work shop manual and data manual stopped years ago in spite saying it had a live time update system.

That's interesting. I have a smart charger (Ring). I also have an old car that is rarely used. A couple of years ago, I replaced the battery, because it kept going flat. I've a feeling it was a "Lion" branded one. Can't remember what the current one is, (Exide, I think), but I've been disappointed with it. The other week, after the car had been unused for a fortnight, it was down to 11.6 volts.

I plugged the charger into the mains (it lives in the boot, permanently connected to the battery), and it said "full" after (I dunno, 6 hours or so), so I unplugged it.

However, you're talking about leaving them on charge for days, rather than hours? Should I be doing that?

Should I be charging it, disconnected from the car? The car will be drawing some small current (clock, radio and ECU memories, etc) all the time. Will that "confuse" the electronics in the charger, that are trying to sense the health of the battery?

Will the charger be consuming any power from the battery by being permanently connected to it, but not plugged into the mains?

I worry about setting the car (and garage!) On fire, leaving things permanently on in there. I know people say it's safe to leave these smart chargers permanently switched on, but is it? (On al older (and Italian!) car?

 

[robinbanks]

it lives in the boot, permanently connected to the battery

For the chargers I have, I've long felt this accelerates battery discharge, but I've never put an ammeter in circuit to check..

 

[norseman]

That's interesting. I have a smart charger (Ring). I also have an old car that is rarely used. A couple of years ago, I replaced the battery, because it kept going flat. I've a feeling it was a "Lion" branded one. Can't remember what the current one is, (Exide, I think), but I've been disappointed with it. The other week, after the car had been unused for a fortnight, it was down to 11.6 volts.

I've no experience of Lion, but the general opinion seems to be that 'you get what you pay for'

I had a new Exide on my old BMW, never had faith in it & replaced with a Bosch a couple of years ago. There are some good deals out there for quality batteries, just a question of seeking them out

 

[ericmark]

I would think any diode will pass a small amount of current, so seems likely be it the car alternator or a smart charger there will be some discharge, but likely less that the self discharge, so not really enough to worry about.

Pre the smart charger the float charger would sit at a voltage selected to maintain the battery in normal use, for a 12 volt lead acid around 13.2 to 14.2 volt, so for example a stair lift often a bit on the high side at 14.2 volt as each time used it will go under voltage so the average charge rate is about right.

But the smart charger changed that, it will charge to say 14.4 then switch off, and remain off until battery hits 12.8 volt, then switch back on. Often a chart is published showing what the smart charger is designed to do, we have has stage chargers for years, but these typically turned off and stayed off, the smart charger will turn back on again.

However there is a variation make to make, the Lidi one I used if power is removed will not auto restart, one needs to press a button, it has to have this as the user selects battery size and ambient temperature, and because it will also work with 6 volt batteries the battery needs to be over 7.3 volt or it sees it as a 6 volt battery, and although it will restart charging, max rate is then 0.8 amp not 3.8 amp which is good in some ways, should one get a shorted cell, but if using the battery while on charge as with a caravan, then not such a good thing.

But since the charger has a volt meter built in, it shows at a glance state of battery.

The point is sulphur on the plates over time goes hard, and to remove it takes time, so a battery where interior lamp left on and discharged over 24 hours to recharge will likely only take 8 hours, but one discharged over 6 months, will likely take 2 weeks to recharge.

So it does no harm leaving it on charge for a week with a smart charger, so why not give it the extra time?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I've no experience of Lion, but the general opinion seems to be that 'you get what you pay for'

I had a new Exide on my old BMW, never had faith in it & replaced with a Bosch a couple of years ago. There are some good deals out there for quality batteries, just a question of seeking them out

Lion. Avoid at all costs

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Should I be charging it, disconnected from the car? The car will be drawing some small current (clock, radio and ECU memories, etc) all the time. Will that "confuse" the electronics in the charger, that are trying to sense the health of the battery?

On, or off the car - it will not make much difference, because batteries have inbuilt self discharge anyway.

I worry about setting the car (and garage!) On fire, leaving things permanently on in there. I know people say it's safe to leave these smart chargers permanently switched on, but is it? (On al older (and Italian!) car?

No more of a risk, than leaving your TV on standby.

Will the charger be consuming any power from the battery by being permanently connected to it, but not plugged into the mains?

That, depends upon the smart charger, some need buttons to be pressed to start the charge - they don't usually discharge the battery when not connected to mains.

I give my car's battery a daily boost, while ever it is parked in my garage. I use a dumb charger, outputting a fixed voltage, into which I always plug the car when I park it. The charger is connected to a Smart Plug, which Alexa turns on for 20 minutes each day. My cars electronics systems draw around 20mA whilst it is parked. My charger does not discharge the battery when there is no mains on.

 

[lostinthelight]

I've no experience of Lion, but the general opinion seems to be that 'you get what you pay for'

Ive just replaced a Lion battery in my Alpine tractor that was 9 years old with another of the same from Euro car parts via ebay which was cheaper than going to store.
I also have a Lion in another vehicle which is 7 years old and still good.

 

[DiyNutJob]

On, or off the car - it will not make much difference, because batteries have inbuilt self discharge anyway.

Self discharge dose not equate to average 50mA draw of a sleeping car.

 

[robinbanks]

the Lidi one I used if power is removed will not auto restart

I think that might have been a "bug" - I have two chargers made by AutoXS, Aldi's brand - the older one behaves as you describe, the newer one goes straight to motorcycle mode (0.8A)

 

[norseman]

Ive just replaced a Lion battery in my Alpine tractor that was 9 years old with another of the same from Euro car parts via ebay which was cheaper than going to store.
I also have a Lion in another vehicle which is 7 years old and still good.

That's some recommendation! You can only speak as you find.

Interestingly I obtained my Bosch from ECP via their website, big discount from the retail price & should it ever need to be returned under warranty they have an store less than five miles away from me.

 

[Avocet]

Thanks everyone. I went out and disconnected a battery lead this evening, putting an ammeter in series, carefully, so as not to break the connection. There was a constant 48 mA drain. I left it for half an hour like that, and it didn't change.

Armed with that information, does everyone think the Ring smart charger will be able to do its "reconditioning thing" if I leave it all connected and powered-up for a couple of weeks?

One thing I've noticed with the Ring charger. If I disconnect it from the car battery, I have to push the button to re-start the charger when I next connect the charger to the mains. However, when I leave it permanently connected to the battery, (including driving the car with it connected to the battery), I don't have to press the button to start it when I plug it back into the mains again. It just sets off charging as soon as mains power is restored. Not sure if that's significant?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

One thing I've noticed with the Ring charger. If I disconnect it from the car battery, I have to push the button to re-start the charger when I next connect the charger to the mains. However, when I leave it permanently connected to the battery, (including driving the car with it connected to the battery), I don't have to press the button to start it when I plug it back into the mains again. It just sets off charging as soon as mains power is restored. Not sure if that's significant?

That is unusual - usually that type disconnect/need the button pressed, if mains is lost to restart the charge. If you are correct, then that will discharge the battery, when the mains is not connected.

To leave a charger connected 24/7, with often no mains input - then the charger would need to supply a fixed voltage and charge via a diode, just so there is no discharge when the mains is off. This is the type of charger I use, in my garage, with the car always connected to it. This comes on to charge for 20 minutes per day, via a Smart Plug.

 

[ericmark]

The Lidi will charge at 0.1, 0.8, 3, and 3.8 amp and the point where it drops charge rate is 14.4 volt which to my mind is a little on the high side, but with a stand alone battery (not connected to car) the time it sits at 14.4 volt is rather short, so no real problem, however connected to car so there is a small drain both internal and through the car it means it can hang at the 0.8 amp rate for an extended time.

As long as one looks at the chargers built in voltmeter from time to time, again no real problem, but if one connects and comply forgets then it may cause a problem, I normally have a shufty every third day or so, and if it seems it has not auto reduced I manually switch it off.

 

[cdbe]

I have a ring charger for my classic car. I believe it "switches on" periodically, checks the voltage and either does a bit of charging or goes back to sleep.