replacing my thermal store and boiler…Help in specifying

[Ray Tay]

I just found that CET at Watford, a recon board outfit, do recon pcb boards for the Gledhills. £81 inc delivery.
http://www.cetltd.com/search.asp?srch=Gledhill

 

[Ray Tay]

I found this about the control on the pcb on the Systemate.

The microprocessor pcb is quite clever which sets it apart from other DHW thermal stores. It is self adaptive in that it learns the speed in which the boiler re-heats the cylinder and times the boiler to come in to re-heat right on time. This saves fuel and reduces boiler cycling. It holds off the CH pump when re-heating the cylinder to give priority for fast DHW production, holding off the CH pump until the stored water is over 60C, then the CH pump is allowed to come in and take heat from the boiler to the rads. It also learns the maximum temperature the boiler can give setting its own thermal store cylinder setpoint temperature. If the boiler can only heat to 78C it sets it at that. It heats the stored water from 76C to 82C determining the setpoint. The temperature of the stored water has to drop considerably before the pcb will bring in the boiler to reheat the cylinder preventing boiler cycling. The cylinder heating coil is large and will return very cool water back to the boiler so it works very well with condensing boilers, even models with modulating burners.

The boiler heats the rads directly like most other CH systems.
​

I would be very reluctant to be rid of such a clever hot water and heating system. And these came out about 20 years ago!!!!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Can do most of that with a simple relay and thermostat. The rest is largely pointless and to mitigate the ineptitude of the average house basher.

 

[Ray Tay]

Dan Robinson, wrote, Can do most of that with a simple relay and thermostat.

LOL! You make me larf. A thermostat can do all the work of a microprocessor! LOL!

It also uses the hot water plate heat exchanger pump as a shunt pump as well.
I found The pcb spins the CH pump every 24 hours to prevent seizing. There is no user or installer setting of anything and minimal mechanical parts inside the box; there is nothing inside the box except three quality pumps, a pcb and three sensors. Fire and forget. How simple can it be. Just rely on microprocessors to do it instead of using 70 year old inefficient and crude technology. And you think a thermostat can do all that? LOL.

I last went into this about 20 years ago when my mate got his. I am re-interested so on a roll. A search on Diynot brings this up: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/dps-thermal-store-dhw-performance.275808/page-4 Interesting to say the least.
The pcb board is made by the Czechs and a standard pcb board for many Continental thermal store makers.
http://www.elok.cz/en/products/electronics#34
From the pcb makers web site....

Control board CB GT155
The unit is designed for controlling thermal stores. It controls the temperature of the water in the store and the preparation of domestic hot water. The unit can be expanded in order to control thermal systems with condensing boilers, solar panels. Also the unit can transmit data by means of GSM.
​

I found the manual. I advise the cw018666 to save this.
http://www.gledhill-spares.net/documents/systemate2000-iss10.pdf

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yawn.

 

[Dan Robinson]

If only you understood what most of all the blurb actually meant

 

[Ray Tay]

Yawn.

I doubt you understood a word of it. You do make me larf.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yes Dear.

 

[flameport]

There is no user or installer setting of anything and minimal mechanical parts inside the box; there is nothing inside the box except three quality pumps, a pcb and three sensors. Fire and forget. How simple can it be.

A standard vented or unvented cylinder is far simpler as it has no pumps, heat exchangers, PCB or any of the other unnecessary components that thermal stores do.

Thermal stores are solutions looking for problems. The Gledhill efforts were cheaply made junk, with the end result that the manufacturer went into liquidation, making any warranty useless. A similar named company then opened at the same site with the same owners, did not take on any of the liabilities or warranties, and offered to repair all of the failing products they had previously made while charging a high price for doing so. Even if you use someone else to do the repairs, the overpriced non-standard parts still come from Gledhill Response, so they win either way.

The only people that purchased them were either individuals who were sucked in by the dubious marketing, or property developers who probably obtained them at a substantial discount, the manufacturer knowing full well that they would have entire blocks of flats full of the failing things in a few years time, from which they could make far more money on repairs than they ever did on the actual product.

Those still in use are either the 1% which have not yet fell apart, or have owners who have spent far too much on them already and now can't consider disposing of them as they perceive the vast sums already spent would be wasted.

 

[PullerGas]

PullerGas, wrote "The Navitron Solar forum is full of them too!!"
I think it was that forum, where one fellow fed into a normal cold water tank fed cylinder I think a 100 foot coil of 15mm plastic Polybute pipe, and used this to instantly heat a mains water fed shower, as what Bernard has. Apparently it worked very well and very cheap to do. The pipe was rated for high temperatures. I don't know what the downside would be as the pipe is softer when hot. The expansion and contraction must prevent scale building up on the pipe.

I rest my case M'Lud!!
A bunch of grey goaty beard stroking coffin Dodgers, with too much pension & time on their hands.

There was one guy doing data collection on a PV system that was producing 100watts on a summer day!! Complete fruit loop!!

 

[shambolic]

We bought Gledhill this year.

 

[Ray Tay]

flameport, writes:

1. A standard vented or unvented cylinder is far simpler as it has no pumps, heat exchangers, PCB or any of the other unnecessary components that thermal stores do.

Please keep up and read the thread. The Systemate for the whole heating and hot water system has only three pumps, a pcb, three sensors and a plate heat exchanger. It is far simpler. An unvented cylinder is full of expensive pressure control gear and needs a big blow off pipe and expansion vessel. A Systemate has none of that. The inside is very simple. The boiler to heat an unvented cylinder will have its own pump and troublesome bulky zone or three valves used outside.​

2. Thermal stores are solutions looking for problems.

Only for those who do not understand the control system.​

3. The Gledhill efforts were cheaply made junk, with the end result that the manufacturer went into liquidation,

Gledhill went into trouble like countless other companies because of the 2008 credit crunch. They were selling product before that.​

4. Even if you use someone else to do the repairs, the overpriced non-standard parts still come from Gledhill Response, so they win either way.

The pcb is not that expensive (they can be reconned for £81), neither are the temperature sensors. And they eliminate a lot of mechanical controls and stuff.​

The rest was just highly opinionated.

But back to one of my points. The Systemate idea of one centralised micoprocessor pcb controlling the hot water and heating, eliminating a raft of other mechanical stuff and giving superb control is the best solution. We have gone backwards for sure.

BTW, the Systemate gave high pressure hot water using a low pressure cylinder and could, be fitted well away from an outside wall as no blow off, overflow or vent pipes are needed. A very neat box way to go.

 

[Ray Tay]

PullerGas, wrote: A bunch of grey goaty beard stroking coffin Dodgers,

What do you think about the 15mm plastic pipe as a shower coil?

 

[shambolic]

Your head would explode if Google failed on your computer.

 

[Steelmasons]

Do you ever stop?...jeez.