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[transam]

The French have a proud naval history, their greatest victory came in 1985 when they sank the unarmed protest ship Greenpeace Warrior, which was docked at the time in Auckland New Zealand.

Yeah the rainbow warrior the french agents got caught rumour had it that the uk tipped off New Zealand about the caper

 

[AngleEyes]

I no longer give to the RNLI, from a while back when I learnt what they were doing regarding these illegals.

Yeah yeah, they do a good job and all that, and they are in a difficult position. But as I'm already paying some illegal's phone bill, there accommodation bill, food bill, clothing bill, medical care, legal fees, education and everything else really that comes from their illegality , I thought I'd make a stand on moral grounds.

Claiming asylum is not illegal. Your persistent claim that it is illustrates your blatant refusal to accept reality.

 

[AngleEyes]

The French have a proud naval history, their greatest victory came in 1985 when they sank the unarmed protest ship Greenpeace Warrior, which was docked at the time in Auckland New Zealand.

Yes, there's so many failures that the usual anti-French posters find the need to remind us about all of them.
That is why the words Rainbow Warrior appears so frequently in this forum.
A quick search on Rainbow Warrior:

And that's just the first page.
You can guess who are the most frequent posters to mention it innumerable times.

 

[^woody^]

Claiming asylum is not illegal.

If course its not. But migrants entering a country illegally, is err illegal. De facto.

 

[Bosswhite]

Once the Migrants enter our territorial waters they are our reasponsibility , the French are not going to stop them .

 

[motorbiking]

I guess that is possible, but I am pretty sure that when RNLI hear a report of people in trouble at sea, they generally run to their boats, they don't ask what colour the people are. In fact, they have made an official statement about it.

"I could not be prouder of our amazing volunteer lifeboat crews, who launch to the aid of anyone who is in trouble in or around the water and needs our help. We have done this since the RNLI was founded in 1824 and this will always be our ethos.

"Every year, our lifeboat crews and lifeguards rescue around 30,000 people. We do not judge a casualty on what circumstances have found them in trouble."

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/202...arian-work-of-the-rnli-in-the-english-channel

That is not what the AIS data shows.

Typically on a scramble they proceed at 25kts to arrive ASAP, they are regularly proceeding at 10-12kts on these tracks.
The French warship, has a tendency to track Northerly at 3-7kts, as if to stay in the vicinity of a slow vessel.
The issue we have to address is to stop people being attracted to paying people smugglers 1000s to illegally cross the water. having an RNLI pickup service doesn't do that. If these migrants are generally in distress why would they not be picked up by a local crew?

Having said that - it is incredibly dangerous to attempt to cross the channel and given the time of year anyone at sea in a dingy doing 3-6kts who is not an experienced sailor wearing the right kit is going to be very sick and very cold.

I'm more than happy to provide anything the data shows. I do not think the RNLI should be rendezvousing with French warships at the limits of our shared waters to escort illegal migrants. What could happen is for the vessels to be returned to origin port, this would stop the attempts, but would need huge political will. Btw the closest safe port at these points is often not the UK, allowing for distance and tide.

 

[motorbiking]

If the RNLI are in to people trafficking, as you claim, a bit of smuggling wouldn't go amiss.
Maybe they're doing drugs. There must be a host of other crimes that are less serious than people trafficking.

Nice pictures, but they do not prove your allegation that the RNLI are "operating a migrant taxi service". Nor that thy are entering French waters to rescue refugees.

Maybe you could offer your services to Steve Laws as a propogandist. You two obviously share the same mindset.

I've not said they are people trafficking, I've said they appear to be working in coordination with the French authorities to collect migrants at sea, at the point they enter UK waters and ferry them home safely. This is evident from the AIS track.

They are not escorting them. It would not be possible for a 30ft inflatable to hit 20kts with a 15hp output and 50+ people on board.

 

[motorbiking]

I want some credible tracking, something like your personal diagrams, from a reputable and credible source that is in the public domain that shows that a UK lifeboat is operating a migrant taxi service, which we all know to be illegal, that supports your political ideological arguments.

AIS Logs are public - You can track the French on MMSI: 399999999 the Pickup RNLI is MMSI 232002480.

I don't have a political ideology, I think the French authorities are working with a UK Charity to provide a safe crossing for those choosing to cross illegally, no doubt coordinated by phone, now that they know people are recording VHF 16 and publishing it. I do not think SAR operators should be getting sucked in to this. I think it should be UK/FR authorities working it out. Be that border patrol or Navy.

If this is not the situation I wonder what the explanation is for a French warship to cross a TSZ at 5.8kts, turn around and come back in obvious violation of ColReg rule 10. The vessel master would not do this without good reason.

 

[ellal]

I no longer give to the RNLI, from a while back when I learnt what they were doing regarding these illegals.

Yeah yeah, they do a good job and all that, and they are in a difficult position. But as I'm already paying some illegal's phone bill, there accommodation bill, food bill, clothing bill, medical care, legal fees, education and everything else really that comes from their illegality , I thought I'd make a stand on moral grounds.

I wonder what you would be thinking when your ferry was sinking?

In your case I'd be inclined to say 'f*ck you'...

The RNLI is one of the few charities I donate to...

I happen to think that it should be state funded, but given the history it is imo a better service because of individual donations...

You on the other hand appear to believe that certain humans beings live's are worth more than others...

Some of us disagree...

You have no morals!

 

[^woody^]

I wonder what you would be thinking when your ferry was sinking?

Have a bought a lawful ticket and hold a lawfull passport on this hypothetical ferry? Or am I stowing away illegally on my way to pick up a free phone and other free stuff as part of a bogus claim?

 

[AngleEyes]

That is not what the AIS data shows.

What are your referring to as the AIS data not showing?
Your comment seems absurd in the context of the quoted post.

Typically on a scramble they proceed at 25kts to arrive ASAP, they are regularly proceeding at 10-12kts on these tracks.
The French warship, has a tendency to track Northerly at 3-7kts, as if to stay in the vicinity of a slow vessel.

More irrelevance, which relates to nothing.

The issue we have to address is to stop people being attracted to paying people smugglers 1000s to illegally cross the water.

Precisely. Having safe routes does address that, but the UK is loathe to provide such routes. It prefers to leave the only option, the most dangerous for the migrants and others, available as the only route. While publicly castigating the criminal boat providers and vilifying the refugees

having an RNLI pickup service doesn't do that.

You're trying to co-opt a charity funded independent organisation, dedicated to saving lives at sea, into resolving a problem created by government policy.

If these migrants are generally in distress why would they not be picked up by a local crew?

Distress at sea is time and context dependent. You are disingenuously suggesting the refugees were in distress the moment they put to sea. That is obviously not the case. For sure experienced mariners can almost foresee the kind of scenarios that will end in distress. But currently there is no way of preventing anyone undertaking an arduous undertaking with the knowledge gained from experience that it could all end in tears.

Having said that - it is incredibly dangerous to attempt to cross the channel and given the time of year anyone at sea in a dingy doing 3-6kts who is not an experienced sailor wearing the right kit is going to be very sick and very cold.

Of course it is, but currently due to UK policy, that's the only option.

I'm more than happy to provide anything the data shows.

Except so far, over several threads, many days, much wrangling, you have failed to provide such credible evidence.

I do not think the RNLI should be rendezvousing with French warships at the limits of our shared waters to escort illegal migrants. What could happen is for the vessels to be returned to origin port, this would stop the attempts, but would need huge political will. Btw the closest safe port at these points is often not the UK, allowing for distance and tide.

Of course you do, that is your political ideology outweighing your ethical, moral and compassionate concerns for other human beings.
Your political ideology even allows you to misrepresent such 'evidence' that has been presented, and to phrase your comments in such a way that your politically driven assumptions is reality.

 

[ellal]

Have a bought a lawful ticket and hold a lawfull passport on this hypothetical ferry? Or am I stowing away illegally on my way to pick up a free phone and other free stuff as part of a bogus claim?

But you've just said that you won't fund the organisation that would save you due to your belief that you are better than others in peril...

I would hope that would be your last thought on the way to the bottom of the sea!

 

[AngleEyes]

I've not said they are people trafficking, I've said they appear to be working in coordination with the French authorities to collect migrants at sea, at the point they enter UK waters and ferry them home safely.

That would be seen as people trafficking, which you are accusing the RNLI of doing, otherwise you'd have to accept that they are rescuing people in distress.

This is evident from the AIS track.

Only in your, and Steve Laws (the immigration spokesperson for UKIP ) eyes,

They are not escorting them.

Exactly, they are rescuing them.

 

[^woody^]

But you've just said that you won't fund the organisation that would save you due to your belief that you are better than others in peril...

I would hope that would be your last thought on the way to the bottom of the sea!

Answer my question. Have I bought a lawful ticket and have a lawful use of the ferry to get to a place lawfully? Or am I illegally chancing a crossing in the hope of free stuff when I spew out a load of lies to get what I want?

 

[Notch7]

Have a bought a lawful ticket and hold a lawfull passport on this hypothetical ferry

Were you fleeing from Syria, Eritrea, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Somalia or elsewhere from persecution?

And no it doesn’t matter they came from France, displaced people disperse all over the world.