Given the pedants around, you're probably right. I did concede that random breath tests were 'only just illegal' - for the reasons that the rest of you have chosen to debate.
Kind Regards, John.
Should Part P get scrapped?
- Thread starter Scoter1066
- Start date
Kind Regards, John.
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Okay, if this is not your personal observation, where have you come across this issue? There is a review and Joe Public will be looking to get cheaper access to DIY notification. The scheme operators will be pushing to clsoe the shop. Electricians will be split between scheme members and trained sparks as regards to notification.
I have not come across any assertion that schemes need closing as (some) of the members are not up to sctratch - except here in John's posts. Now we have the claim that the public has low confidence in self-certifying electricians.
God the nerve of these pedants daring to question 'those who must be obeyed and not challenged', like JC said they should be taken out and shot immediately.
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What - like someone challenging a policeman who has stopped them for a random breath test over the legality of it?
The answer to that appears to be clear. Part P was added to bring electrical work in line with other work in and on buildings where the prime intention was to ensure as far as possible that buildings were safe and fit for purpose. That is all that Part P was intended to do. I see the problem being that dubious DIYers and cowboy electricians were suddenly subjected to the need to work to a safe standard or be penalised. It wasn't a suprise ( to me ) that many of the "electricians" who claimed to be "Part P registered" were the cowboys trying to appear to be legally able to do electrics and they then added a "surcharge" on customers bills for being "Part P registered".
I recall one cowboy explaning the "Part P registered" surcharge to a customer. He said that Part P had meant he had had to go on courses to learn the requirments of Part P. Did he mean learning the requirements of BS7671 and other requirements of safe electrical work ? Yes he did . So how did he do safe electrical work before Part P.
In all trades there will be cowboys and out right dangerous bodgers which other parts of building control has some measure of control over. Part P was the sensible way to extend that control to electrical work but its implimentation to both trade and public was not done very well.
Correction, honest DIYers "were suddenly subjected to the need to work to a safe standard" and were penalised. Most of them already did, and have just been penalised with little obvious benefit*. Dubious DIYers haven't been affected much at all since they all know they can just carry on with next to no chance of anyone getting involved - if they even know the rules have changed.
Coyboy "trade" electricians have only been penalised to the limited extent that the regs are enforced - ie only if they are unlucky enough to be caught by Trading Standards or some dodgy TV show.
* Or worse, a negative benefit. Because of Part P, my friends consumer unit was fitted by a professional. Quite frankly it's a complete unmaintainable mess and I'm tempted to redo it properly - once he's got his completion certificate. Without Part P, I'd have just done it, and got someone with the right (calibrated) kit to test it. I do have enough basic (uncalibrated) kit** to pre/peri install checks and be confident of not finding any issues.
** Actually, I just picked up an MFT at a nice price, and it's come calibrated for a year
Build yourself (or buy if you must have something shoddy) a check box now - then you'll know if your MFT ever drifts.
I'm still using the check box that I built many years ago. The original modalities, in terms of resistance (low and high) and voltage were obviously trivial to implement, and even loop impedance not that difficult (using an inverter as the source). The subsequent add-on for checking RCD tests was a little more challenging, and I have not yet tried to extend it to checking the testing of RCD thresholds (i.e. ramp testing) - so it currently only checks the accuracy of measurements of the delay time before 'disconnection'.
In a formal sense, a check box is obviously not a substitute for calibration, but it generally serves my purpose. If/when there is a need for 'formality', I can get my meter calibrated. Iwould add that, in all the years, I've never detected any appreciable drift in my MFTs.
Kind Regards, John
Yes, a resistance box is trivial to knock up, and that's most likely the two functions (loop resistance and IR) I'd be most interested in checking. If I ever need to have a calibrated instrument, then the calibration fee is less than the extra my LABC charge if I can't provide test results
Indeed. Mine majors on values between 0.01Ω and 5Ω. and 0.1MΩ to 500MΩ, with a few others.
Same here, although checking the loop impedance testing functionality of an MFT (or dedicated loop tester) is obviously not quite as simple as just having a resistance box - but, as I said, was not difficult to implement with the combination of an inverter and a 'resistance box' arrangement.
Kind Regards, John.
Not built yet (got all the parts except the round tuit):
0.2, 0.5, 1.0, 10, 100, 1K, 250K, 500K, 1M, 200M, 500M, 1GΩ
POP if you have a non-RCD socket available in your house.
Have a socket in the box with a 1Ω resistor switchable into the earth path, and check that your loop test result changes by 1Ω each time.
You can also fit a switchable RCD into the box as well.
I think you mean qualified registered (to a scheme). Being professional is something very different. Many DIYers work to a professional standard.
That is a negative benefit due to the poor way Part P was introduced. It is probably the only part that affects so many DIY people. Not many people do the structural or hazardous DIY work that is covered by other parts but a great many do ( or have been doing ) DIY electrical work.
Enforcement is nigh on impossible which means it has not contributed much to reducing the dangers that will be created by ignorant DIYers intent on do the work without notifying.
I remain convinced that a leading force in getting Part P set up was pressure from the electrical industry to find a way to reduce the amount of work being lost to DIYers. As others have said the number of deaths from dangerous DIY electrical work seems to be insignificant compared to deaths from bodged work in other trades, work by both DIYers and "professional" tradesmen having resulted in death, injury or serious damage to property. ( yes I know a single death is extremely distressing to relatives and friends )
I am convinced that the vast majority of bad work done by DIYers arises not because they think:
"Yes - I do know all about sizing circuits, how to match cable & MCB ratings with loads, why ring final spurs have the rules they do, where and how to install cable safely etc etc, but I don't give a ****, I'm going to ignore all of that and bung in something dodgy."
But because they simply don't know any of that and don't even realise it.
The real solution lies in education.
True, the "education" of the masses about electrical safety is very poor if not non existant. But would education have any real result in improving the situation.
Car users are "educated" to know that cars have to have an MOT and be road worthy but few if any have any idea what makes a car safe. Some think a car is safe because it has air bags. They do not help the things and people the car hits. Lack of common sense and intelligent thought affects too many people.
At least with gas the news reports of houses blown apart and collapsing tower blocks has made most of the population aware of the dangers of mis use and poor installation of gas equipment.
How can the dangers of of mis use and poor installation of electrical equipment be "educated" into the minds of people ?. Part P failed miserably to do that and that is why Part P is so dis-liked by the masses who do not see the reason for controlling the quality of electrical work.
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