Shower Drama - Please help!!

[Homesafe]

won't he be better off putting in a combi, with an unvented cylinder,

there will be changes to the pipework (less than some above suggestions ,i

presume) but he cant avoid that and with this combo he will have great

pressure and recovery ,

 

[Bambergaspipe]

won't he be better off putting in a combi, with an unvented cylinder,

Why have a combi and an unvented cylinder? Do you mean system boiler and unvented cylinder? never heard of a combi with unvented before, is it new?

 

[Homesafe]

Do you mean system boiler and unvented cylinder?

yes that's what i meant system boiler, sos

 

[tamz]

I'm new to this forum so all you regulars feel free to shoot me down if you wish.
About your shower problem.....
As far as i can gather, you live in a bungalow, have a gravity fed HW system with mains supply to bathrooms, 50 gallon (227 litre in new money) cistern ( or should that be tank!?) and a 36 x 18 cylinder 30 or so feet from cylinder, both fitted in loft. Heating system is an old gravity HW system (although may be pumped).
Easiest and cheapest solution - just fit a twin impeller shower pump, positive head ( unless your planning to shower on the roof!) any make to suit your budget. They all do the same job. Bit like buying a lada or a merc, you get what you pay for. Stuart Turner monsoon one of best but also more top of range so more expensive. Go for higher output (more bar) if you can stretch the budget. Cheapie pump supplied and shower fitted... around £500.
Cold supply for shower will need to be taken directly from cold water cistern, ballcock should be a 3/4" and ideally hot supply from essex or surrey flange on hot water cylinder.
This option will give you an excellent shower that will last around 20mins. Though the next decent shower would be in about an hours time (thats due your gravity primarys, old slow heating system!)
If you can afford it (and it sounds like it needs it), then upgrade your heating system to something a bit more modern and efficient, (you'll save around £200 a year on gas) either a combi system or a sealed system and unvented cylinder. A combi will give you unlimited showering and an unvented system higher flow rates. Depends on what you want. Speak to a local installer who knows what he is talking about. Get a few quotes and you will soon know who knows their stuff.
Good luck.

 

[tamz]

Bambergaspipe Why have a combi and an unvented cylinder? Do you mean system boiler and unvented cylinder? never heard of a combi with unvented before, is it new?

No it is not new. depends on layout of house. Fit a combi with a 3 port valve, combi supplying hot to utility room or kitchen where it is fitted unvented the rest of house.
Saves the long dead legs!

 

[Bambergaspipe]

Fit a combi with a 3 port valve, combi supplying hot to utility room or kitchen where it is fitted

Fit a combi with a three port valve, do you mean fit a combi then fit a three port valve or fit a combi with a three port valve?

unvented the rest of house.

Have you ever seen or fitted an unvented system and do you know the point? If so perhaps you would like to tell me why these systems are fitted and more to the point where.

Saves the long dead legs!

What dead legs??

It`s a bungalow Numpty, why would he need an unvented cylinder? As for Dead legs do you mean in the hot water runs to the outlets? Again it`s a bungalow not a hospital, have you ever heard of a secondary return? Look it up.

 

[tamz]

Actually i had the first unvented system in Scotland 1988, 5 months before legal, had to apply for class relaxation to bylaws before they would give me a water supply. Polystel cylinder, steel plastic lined(looked like big butane bottle) lasted 4 years then rotted. That was in the dats before they had a G in unvented! We weren't all born yesterday you know!

 

[tamz]

How many secondary returns have you ever fitted domestic?

 

[Bambergaspipe]

How many secondary returns have you ever fitted domestic?

How many bungalows require a combi plus an unvented cylinder set up you idiot?

You are talking through your ar*se mate. and you are obviously not a plumber,gas fitter nor handyman, read some more books armchair hero then get back.

Still haven`t answered the question regarding the combi and the two port valve. Go back to your book, make sure you read it properly.

 

[tamz]

Who the f*%k mentioned bungalow?
You said you had never heard of a combi coupled to an unvented system. Vokera used to do the wiring drawing 15years ago in their Excel manual, thats when i first came across it. Horses for courses. Design the system to suit the property . I can do you a system sketch if you can't figure it out!
As for the i'm not a .......?whatever qualified.
I can assure you when it comes to installs i can keep up with the best.
Are you up for it?

 

[tamz]

Anyway it's too late for this. I'm up in 2 hours. Only came on this internet to find out how to wire a Stratos RE2132 & PR01 to a Vaillant. Cant be done as far as i can make out son change of plans.
TBC

 

[Bambergaspipe]

Who the f*%k mentioned bungalow?

Might have been the poster.

You said you had never heard of a combi coupled to an unvented system.

It would be pointless, you obviously don`t know the difference or how both systems work.

Vokera used to do the wiring drawing 15years ago in their Excel manual, thats when i first came across it.

Have you installed one then?

Horses for courses. Design the system to suit the property . I can do you a system sketch if you can't figure it out!

No, you can show me an example of where you have installed one if you like. Failing that give examples of where these systems are installed.

I can assure you when it comes to installs i can keep up with the best.
Are you up for it?

I`ll try my best. Grandad. Lead on.

 

[diddly4u]

Hi guys,
Well it was me that started all this arguing, wasn't it???

My sincere apologies for not getting back to you on this sooner, but given where I live, I couldn't get an appointment for a heating engineer to come out for over a month!!

They've been now, and since the old boiler is 16 years old, the concensus of opinion seems to be that we go with a combi boiler.

The shower that started all this (wish I'd never bought it now) turned out not to have any installation instructions, or flow rates for that matter, so it was fun trying to track that info down (PGH Group).

I think it was Mogget who asked me for the flow rates, so here we go:

Handheld head = 7.7lpm min. or 11.7 optimal
Panel = 7.8 min. or 11.7 optimal
Overhead = 7.2 min or 11 optimal

Scottish Gas say that a combi that does 17.2 lpm with 35 degree rise will be fine for it, and want to charge me £5500 for the pleasure.

Does this sound about right to you guys?? I would welcome your thoughts on the subject

Many thanks

 

[mogget]

At the minimum rates quoted, the three together require a minimum of 23 li/m if used together.

17.2 litres per minute will supply 2 of the 3 at any one time.

You'd need a huge combi to provide 17.2 li/m. A Worcester 42CDi would do it, but...

...can you get this amount of water from your mains supply? If not, both combi and unvented system are out of the picture (barring expensive accumulators etc).

Also, I suspect that with any less than the 'optimum' quoted flow, the perfomance will be 'less than optimal', ie not very good at all.

 

[diddly4u]

Thanks for the reply.

The boiler we've been quoted for is a British Gas Series 5 Model 542 with a flow rate of 17.2 l/min. It's a wall mounted model, and is supposed to be "compact" High efficiency condensing system boiler, with variable speed pump and switchable ECO mode......if ANY of that makes sense to you, then you're doing a lot better than me at the mo!!!

We have been told that our mains supply is more than ample to cope, and has now been tested to 3 bar on the kitchen tap, if thats any help.
We've been told that the new boiler will be no bigger than the old one, so if it IS huge, I'm going to be mightily disappointed

As for the different heads on the shower, well I don't see me ever using them all at the same time anyway.....I'm thinking more of shower first, then finish off with hydrotherapy (At least I hope so).

The quote of £5500 includes thermostatic valves on 10 radiators and the fitting. I was just wondering if that sounded about right.....or am I getting talked into a lot of HP I don't need?

Thanks again