Did some skirting. How big a gap at the top can you get away with? How can you get it closer to the wall? I used two 50mm ovals one above other 400 centres. Yet again I struggled behind radiator getting the nails to hold it in. Does the heat loosen plaster? Think a 2nd fix nail gun would help in these places - thinking Milwaukee
Skirting
- Thread starter Keitai
- Start date
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Draw a line on the wall along the top of the skirting.
Remove it and cut away the plaster below. Screw a wooden batten to the wall, into plasplugs, of thickness the thickness of the plaster or greater, so that the top of the batten will be flush with the top of the skirting. You can fill or pack behind the batten out of sight.
Screw another batten parallel to the first, about an inch above the floor
Use filler on the joint between the plaster and the top batten and to level any unevenness in the plaster.
You can now use small countersunk screws to fix the skirting to the battens.
When you fill and paint the skirting and any exposed part of the batten the joint will not be seen.
IMO nails are a poor choice.
When you have a wall that is flat, smooth and unobstructed, you can use quicker methods such as glue or foam.
Remove it and cut away the plaster below. Screw a wooden batten to the wall, into plasplugs, of thickness the thickness of the plaster or greater, so that the top of the batten will be flush with the top of the skirting. You can fill or pack behind the batten out of sight.
Screw another batten parallel to the first, about an inch above the floor
Use filler on the joint between the plaster and the top batten and to level any unevenness in the plaster.
You can now use small countersunk screws to fix the skirting to the battens.
When you fill and paint the skirting and any exposed part of the batten the joint will not be seen.
IMO nails are a poor choice.
When you have a wall that is flat, smooth and unobstructed, you can use quicker methods such as glue or foam.
What you suggest means screwing through the top decorative part of skirting. I guess filler will help
when screwing to a batten, you only need little countersunk screws.
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D
Deleted member 174758
The maximum gap at the top should be 5mm or less - about the most you can caulk without it falling down the 'ole. Bigger gaps cap be filled with Fossa Caulk Saver then caulked (sometimes done on old buildings with existing skirtings that have big gaps). Aim to get the skirting as near to plumb to the wall as possible before you fix it (see below) as well as sitting hard to the floor (prevents draughts). MDF skirting can easily be bent in to the contour of a bowed wall much more easily than pine and will also bend downwards to a meet a hollow or arched floor more easily.
The main problems you get with walls for skirting are firstly the wall is bowed along it's length (but acceptably plumb). This can even occur in new houses - most often because corner beads in the plastering are sitting proud. In these cases you need to fix one end of the skirting to the wall, then bend the skirting in to the wall with your knee and hold it there whilst you fix it. If needs be fix a temporary block to the floor to hold the skirting in place it whilst you do this and until the grip adhesive goes off (same applies to walls which are bellied out, only in that case the temporary blocks go at the outer ends).
Another, more serious, defect you get at the bottoms of walls is ropey plasterwork where the plasterer starts his stroke but leaves a thicker area of plaster The skirting won't sit plumb without leaving a big gap at the top. The best solution is to pencil line where the top of the skirting should go using an offcut of skirting, then reduce the thicker plasterwork to plumb below the pencil line using a hammer and electrician's bolster chisel so that the skirting will sit flat and upright to the wall (this is a joiner's solution). I have at times resorted to power planing out the lower back part of the skirting to get things to fit a really ropey wall, mainly for hardwood skirtings as a "solution of last resort"
Also, you cannot see what is happening at floor with the skirting if you leave those spikey carpet strips down (i.e. is the skirting flat to the floor or does it need scribing to the floor to reduce the gap?). So lift them out carefully with a thin bar or wide chisel, before knocking the snot out of the plasterwork, installing the skirtings, painting the skirts, and then refix them. You'll never do a decent job with that carp in the way
50mm ovals are maybe a bit on the big side, you know, 40mm are thinner, and why are all the nail heads left sticking out? If you can't punch the nail in below the surface and if they bend like that then you are obviously trying to use nails that are too long for the job
You can use ovals providing you ensure that what you are fixing into will actually take and hold a nail and that you can punch the heads under. Ideally this means fixing into the stud wall sole plate (bottom 45mm or so of the wall), looking for wooden studs to fix into, or adding wooden plugs if needs be. If the wall is something like a hard brick with a thin skim of plaster or render your only choice is going to be to drill 7mm, brown plug then screw (4.5 or 5.0mm screws). Plaster on soft brick and you can often use masonry nails rather than ovals. Plaster on soft block (such as Thermalites) and you can just nail double skew (dovetail nail) with biggish ovals, because they'll hold.
If the plaster is firm enough and thick enough you can get away with just double skew nailing and using a grip adhesive on the back of the skirting. The technique for nailing to plaster is to drill two pilot holes at an angle in different directions with a small drill bit (or even just snip the end of a nail, chuck that and use it as a pilot drill), tap the nails in 3/4 of the way into the holes (aligning them with the grain of the wood), position the skirting against the wall, then finish with the hammer and punch under with a hammer and nail set. If you are using a lot of nails it is generally better to pre-drill the skirting and tap all the nails in before planting it on the wall. BUT THIS ONLY WORKS IF YOU HAVE ALREADY SORTED OUT THE PLASTER (AS ABOVE) SO THAT THE SKIRTING PLANTS PLUMB AND FLAT TO THE WALL. IT ISN'T SUITABLE FOR POOR QUALITY AND SOFT PLASTERWORK NOR FOR WALLS WITH VERY THIN PLASTERWORK OVER MASONRY IN WHICH CASE DRILL, PLUG AND SCREW (capitalised to emphasise how important this is)
Despite comments, joiners nailed skirtings into place for something like 350 years before we had 2nd fix nail guns in the late 1990s/early 2000s. It was the norm, but as I said above you always try to find a wooden stud, timber sole plate, timber ground or wooden plug that you've hammered into the wall to fix to (which is incidentally where the name "plugging chisel" comes from - a chisel designed to cut out mortar between masonry so that a wooden wedge or plug can be hammered in).
I also notice that you have a joint beneath that radiator. How the heck are you going to sand that flat?
Whilst can be a good idea to hide joints beneath skirtings, that is only if you can plane or sand them flat afterwards! Also that joint is terrible!!! I've found that doing my joints at about 25° to 30° bevel works better for me, especially if I Mitre Mate the joint. But joints do need to be made as flat as possible and you do need to be able to get in there to plane/sand the joint absolutely flat afterwards - what you have done makes it impossible to get a smooth joint in there, so that will always stand out like a sore thumb. I had a 1st year apprentice last year who did a lot better than that - so considering that you charge for your work, that scores 2/10.
Another thing which is wrong is the way you have finished the skitrting into that "architrave":
In point of fact either that archtrave looks like it has been installed the wrong way round - the radiused edge should go to the opening side, the wall side, where the skirting meets the architrave is supposed to be flat. TBH I'd just want to rip that off and replace it with architrave fitted the right way round. Given that the architrave is a FU you've at least started the right way to tackle this by bevel cutting the end of the architrave, but then you didn't scribe the back of the skirting to to fit the radius (requires a rat tail wood rasp, etc). Filling that now will just look like another bodge job.
If you can't take the architrave off (although why I really wouldn't know, as it is carp), there is another solution, but it requires a multitool and a neat methodical approach:
1. Starting with the architrave and a line marking the top of the skirting, mark out then cut away the radiused section of the architrave
2. Cut some square edged material and trim th fit the gap. Glue in place. When set clean-up glue squeeze-out, plane flush, fill gaps with 2-pack filler then machine sand (because 2-pack cannot be hand sanded effectively). Infill fillet shown in a different colour for clarity
3. Install the skirting - you now have a flat edge to finish to - which is what you should have had to start with (not the same moulding as the OP's but all I am doing is attempting to illustrate the pronciple).It is still a little bit awkward compared to what it should look like if the architraves were properly installed withba flat outer edge:
but done properly it's a heck of a lot better than mitreing it then trying to bodge it with filler. Replacement is faster, though
At least your scribe at the other end is somewhere near, although there is still too much of a gap on the vertical, where it will be most noticeable and where you can't fill. Are you applying enough back set to your scribe cuts? (5°) Also you do need to learn not to chip the edges the way you have.
It may seem awkward, but the way to control the cut is to turn the blade so the teeth point towards the handle of the coping saw, and make the cut with the handle on the underside of the cut, so that the teeth are cutting into the material, and the blade is kept in tension (stiffer - straighter), so no break out. This is how fretworkers make cuts - at least half the joiners I've ever worked with don't know or seem to understand why you should work this way. Whilst this isn't as critical on unfinished MDF or softwood, it essential if you ever install pre-finished stuff or are working with splintery hardwoods, etc
For anyone who has read thus far but who isn't aware, the OP is a tradesman who is charging for his work. I therefore hold him to the same standards any tradesman should work to, i.e. fairly high
I thought you were on DW. TBH for what you are doing a Milwaukee is no better than the DW, but when the nitrogen cylinder eventually discharges (these guns with compressed gas or air cylinders ALL leak, albeit very slowly - I have 4 Hikokis to prove it) it's costly to have it replaced (workshop job, been told about £150, Hikoki recharge £60). You could buy the bare DW gun much cheaper. Simpler and cheaper to repair, too
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What thickness baton? Might be tricky under radiator
D
Deleted member 174758
There is a reason why joiners don't screw stuff onto the backs of skirtings - it often make it impossible to get the face of the skirting to sit flush to the architrave where they meet. Skirtings always need to sit flush or under the level of the architrave. If adding in the middle of the wall to take out bow the add-on needs to be scribed to the wall
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D
Deleted member 174758
The OP probably hasn't even considered screwing it to the wall...
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that's never troubled me, because I know how to take a rad off.
In your own home, you probably take more care than anyone else will.
My battens are as near as I can get, the same depth as the plaster, usually 18mm or so. Sometimes walls are a bit wavy, but the skirtings will be straight, so the battens are. The result is that the skirtings project just a shade less than if they had been glued on (which is quite common modern practice).
I did formerly have a house with plinth blocks, but I think my (newer) architraves are all the same thickness at the edge as the skirtings, or more. I have seen skirtings shaved into a round to meet the architrave in some other houses
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Well we know the OP will screw it up in the end with a 19 page thread about it!
Andy
Wall under radiator is outside wall so I'll plug and screw ( I was told avoid screwing if possible), anyway I'll do it 300 centres as the nails arent biting and it's a joke. The other wall is plasterboard- I'll knock for studs then just screw in. This should improve fixing. Is this the only way?
Regarding guns I didnt know Milwaukee 1st and 2nd fix had gas, I thought that was just Paslo, I had no idea I'd have so many repair issues! Of course i would have dewalt but heard particularly 1st fix lacked power. I wouldn't be using them continuously and they'd be left unused for quite awhile between jobs and Milwaukee was great
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why, and who by?
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