Skirting

[Deleted member 174758]

Correct. If someone is being paid to do the job I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to do the job properly. Do you?

That doesn't stop me from trying to inform the OP where he has gone wrong, but I won't sugar coat the pill.

 

[Keitai]

why, and who by?

Don't take this the wrong way, but in real terms you have next to no experience, and you have a very long way to go before you have enough skill, experience, knowledge or ability. On site nobody is going to nursemaid you - they'll just sack you if/when you can't do the job, or you screw something up, or are too slow, and nobody will be there to answer questions for you. It's a tough environment, kiddo.

In any case, do you have a blue (level 2) or gold (level 3) CSCS Site Carpenter's card? No. This is meant to show a minimum level of training and knowledge - and for a larger site, run by a responsible main contractor it's no CSCS card, no job. You know, these days even labourers have to do a 1-day training course before sitting the CSCS Health & Safety test to get their green cards (and don't even think about getting a green card and then working as a joiner - AFAIK that was banned in 2016/2017)

As an example`of work, take a look at this thread; TBH I've had 2nd year apprentices who could have done this job and known when to ask questions about the various gotchas (like that architrave the wrong way round, etc) if they weren't sure - but they'd have known to lift the carpet nail strips before starting (because leaving them in place is a health and safety hazard, plus it limits access to the bottom of the skirtings for fixings into the sole plate, as well as making it difficult to ensure that the skirting is bent/scribed to the floor, if necessary). They would also have done me neat, closed-up middle of wall mitre joins with no gaps (ever heard of Mitre Mate, or even just PVA glueing and nailing the mitres and sanding afterwards?) which didn't require a ton of filler, and they'd have put me TWO screws in, one above the other (a single screw as you have done isn't guaranteed to hold the skirting plumb or limit cupping)

View attachment 265393

This is extremely basic stuff that they get taught by the end of year 1 when they are with someone competent. And on the issue of site work a qualified man may have to put in 40 or more metres of skirting a day, including scribes and joins. Do you think you could do that? And do it well enough to get paid?

You might think I'm being harsh, but as a joinery foreman my job involves pushing the job along. On any job there simply isn't the time to deal with the untrained, unknowledgeable, slow or incapable (other than maybe the apprentices, and in their case it's because they are dirt cheap - many don't last). We often have a main contractor breathing down our necks with a QS (quantity surveyor) in tow who will pick-up every defect and use them as an excuse to withhold payment - so if someone isn't pulling their weight you warn them first, then if they don't improve quickly you fire them (let's call a spade a spade and say that I never "let people go"). Bear all this in mind if you are thinking about site work


I notice you didn't ascertain what the wall was made from. FYI in order to get a fix you need to ascertain if it is dot and dab onto masonry (so long screws and plugs) or a stud wall (on which case locate the studs and sole plate). Caulking because you can't find a stud to fix to is a fail on an NVQ test.

Finally those screw holes need to be filled with 2-pack wood filler, mixed on a scrap of skirting/plywood/etc and applied with a flexible stopping knife. Once set hard (maybe 1 to 2 hours) you sand it back with a small sander such as a 1/4-sheet orbital sander, because you cannot hand sand 2-pack. Also see you bodged the filler around the architrave joint...

So how long did all this take you?

Just looking to get experience and thought going through an agency for site work would give me it.

You can go for labourer (but heard wont learn anything so am reluctant even though they're paying £100/day) other option is carpenter and winging it. I've heard lots do this when they're not real carpenters e.g. bored brickies borrowing tools going through agencies etc. I'm sure this makes your blood boil but this is what I heard.

Lastly- handyman, skilled labourer or carpenter's mate - I thought I had work as handyman on skirtings at local hospital but it was postponed and I wasn't told. I turned up and they weren't there. This last lot is what I was thinking of trying through an agency in a hope to gain experience. If labourer was enough to gain experience I'll do it. I'm aware of how frequently fired many people on site are. Not that bothered, I've got other work elsewhere. I mean I would be bothered but I'm sure I'll get over it. And agency work would allow a week or two stints and I could leave or get fired depending and do my other jobs.

This is to gain experience by working with others even if only observational.

You said many apprentices are kicked off site- what happens to them then?

Regarding cscs got diploma level 2 not NVQ level 2 so I'd be on labourers card, worth getting? I heard it's all a money making scam but whatever I'd I need it I need it. Not all sites need it I believe.


Regarding gun, I'm gonna get the Dewalt 1st fix one you mentioned. Got a featheredge job on Friday to use it on.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Just looking to get experience and thought going through an agency for site work would give me it

So basically with no training and no qualifications you expect to be paid for doing stuff that you don't know how to do? Can you put in a staircase? Can you install a Fink truss roof? Can you swing a double rebated door set? Can you put in a suspended floor, joists and all? Can you install scribed pipe boxing? Can you install a laminate floor? Can you build a stud wall or ceiling? If you can't do at least half of those, what in the world makes you think you can do a carpenter's job?

I do have a problem with your approach to being a tradesman. Instead of reading everything you can from valid sources (e.g. the City & Guilds texts), then asking for advice before you start something, you often seem to go at it hammer and tongs, f*ck it up, and then ask questions. And you always seem to want to find a quick and easy bodge to get you out of a hole. If you considered the job properly first and then carefully mapped out your approach before starting you'd get a better result in less time. It's called the 6P principle - Perfect Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance. By all means waste your own time and materials, but what do you think would happen if you were given, say, a £600 solid hardwood worktop to install and you f*cked it up? Unless you level with people from the off and tell them you are a semi-skilled (for which the rate is little better than a labourer) then trying and failing is far worse than being honest. But you want a time served man's rate, for what? In other areas this is called misrepresentation, fraudulent behaviour, or just a con.

...other option is carpenter and winging it. I've heard lots do this when they're not real carpenters e.g. bored brickies borrowing tools going through agencies etc. I'm sure this makes your blood boil but this is what I heard.

You are unlikely to get on a big site without at least a blue card. Brickies, shuttering carpenters and plasterers who are chancing it generally get found out early on and often get bulleted because mostly they are too rough and too slow. Or when you one who hasn't a clue you put hjim on the ****tiest, most demeaning jobs you've got (that take little skill) and ting the agency for his replacement. There is also the fact that anyone with a trade tends to watch other tradesmen working and picks things up over time - but you have absolutely no site experience, so what have you picked up? The odd one who wings it succesfully is often a decent DIYer and can survive on simpler stuff - but it's jobs like kitchens, roofs and structural which sort the men from the boys. Do you seriously think you are good enough to wing it? I don't, at least not based on what you have published here and elsewhere on the 'net over the past 2 or 3 years.

Regarding cscs got diploma level 2 not NVQ level 2 so I'd be on labourers card, worth getting? I heard it's all a money making scam but whatever I'd I need it I need it. Not all sites need it I believe.

i generally work on larger jobs or at least jobs run by bigger contractors. They are almost all CSCS sites these days. TBH your diploma won't even get you a labourer's card - you'll still need to do the safety training and sit the CSCS test. The whole idea of having these tests and certificates is to weed out the chancers - the ones who are winging it and are therefore potentially dangerous. In your situation you are supposed to be on a red card

Your knowledge is actually so limited that the better quality smaller contractors would probably dump you within a couple of days when they found out how little you could do (FFS a 1 hour skirting job with 5 or 6 obvious flaws?). That leaves you with working in the scabby end of the trade, the cowboy builders... Maybe in a few years time we'll see you on TV - on Rogue Traders if you keep going the way you are, who knows?

There are times when it is better to admit that you can't do something even passibly well, give up and do something else

 

[HERTS P&D]

Keitai, have you run out of old ladies to con? Or has the local area sussed out who you are.......... a conman.

Andy

 

[Charlie George]

I've heard lots do this when they're not real carpenters e.g. bored brickies borrowing tools going through agencies etc.

Bored brickies becoming carpenters im a Bricklayer by trade, also a far better joiner, far better block paver/fencer etc than you and i wouldn't last a day doing these jobs on a site, I can spot if a brickie is any good within an hour or two, on your first day Keitai i wouldn't bother bringing a packed lunch.

 

[Notch7]

Bored brickies becoming carpenters im a Bricklayer by trade, also a far better joiner, far better block paver/fencer etc than you and i wouldn't last a day doing these jobs on a site, I can spot if a brickie is any good within an hour or two, on your first day Keitai i wouldn't bother bringing a packed lunch.

I used to think bricklaying wasn’t a terribly skilled trade until I got involved with construction - the setting out of brickwork, even straightforward metric gauge requires a lot of knowledge - and the actual bricklaying requires considerable experience to do at any speed - it’s highly skilled.

I suppose there is quite a difference between a timeserved fully trained bricklayer and a guy that does the running in on new builds

 

[Notch7]

Keitai gets a hard time on this forum - I have to say, I’ve not seen him be rude to anybody in response.

And he does ask a lot of questions, so he clearly is interested in learning - cowboys only care about getting the money

 

[HERTS P&D]

He charges for his services to the older generation. He is asking questions on a DIY site, his customers think he is a tradesman, NO he is a conman.

Andy

 

[HERTS P&D]

Notch, would you let him work for an elderly relative of yours?

Andy

 

[Keitai]

So basically with no training and no qualifications you expect to be paid for doing stuff that you don't know how to do? Can you put in a staircase? Can you install a Fink truss roof? Can you swing a double rebated door set? Can you put in a suspended floor, joists and all? Can you install scribed pipe boxing? Can you install a laminate floor? Can you build a stud wall or ceiling? If you can't do at least half of those, what in the world makes you think you can do a carpenter's job?

I do have a problem with your approach to being a tradesman. Instead of reading everything you can from valid sources (e.g. the City & Guilds texts), then asking for advice before you start something, you often seem to go at it hammer and tongs, f*ck it up, and then ask questions. And you always seem to want to find a quick and easy bodge to get you out of a hole. If you considered the job properly first and then carefully mapped out your approach before starting you'd get a better result in less time. It's called the 6P principle - Perfect Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance. By all means waste your own time and materials, but what do you think would happen if you were given, say, a £600 solid hardwood worktop to install and you f*cked it up? Unless you level with people from the off and tell them you are a semi-skilled (for which the rate is little better than a labourer) then trying and failing is far worse than being honest. But you want a time served man's rate, for what? In other areas this is called misrepresentation, fraudulent behaviour, or just a con.


You are unlikely to get on a big site without at least a blue card. Brickies, shuttering carpenters and plasterers who are chancing it generally get found out early on and often get bulleted because mostly they are too rough and too slow. Or when you one who hasn't a clue you put hjim on the ****tiest, most demeaning jobs you've got (that take little skill) and ting the agency for his replacement. There is also the fact that anyone with a trade tends to watch other tradesmen working and picks things up over time - but you have absolutely no site experience, so what have you picked up? The odd one who wings it succesfully is often a decent DIYer and can survive on simpler stuff - but it's jobs like kitchens, roofs and structural which sort the men from the boys. Do you seriously think you are good enough to wing it? I don't, at least not based on what you have published here and elsewhere on the 'net over the past 2 or 3 years.


i generally work on larger jobs or at least jobs run by bigger contractors. They are almost all CSCS sites these days. TBH your diploma won't even get you a labourer's card - you'll still need to do the safety training and sit the CSCS test. The whole idea of having these tests and certificates is to weed out the chancers - the ones who are winging it and are therefore potentially dangerous. In your situation you are supposed to be on a red card

Your knowledge is actually so limited that the better quality smaller contractors would probably dump you within a couple of days when they found out how little you could do (FFS a 1 hour skirting job with 5 or 6 obvious flaws?). That leaves you with working in the scabby end of the trade, the cowboy builders... Maybe in a few years time we'll see you on TV - on Rogue Traders if you keep going the way you are, who knows?

There are times when it is better to admit that you can't do something even passibly well, give up and do something else

I wasn't serious about claiming to be a carpenter to gain experience (I was told people do it who go through agencies!). My friend told me this goes on.

Just wanted to gain experience(not bothered about the money , not main priority)and asked how to do it. I just posed that people do it. I thought skilled labourer or handyman, carpenters mate position might be the best option to try for with lower responsibility but able to learn from others. Even labourer if I'd learn from it!

 

[ladiesman020]

I did some skirting last year and I glued & screwed