Smart meter confusion

[ericmark]

I know British Gas confirmed that “remote disconnection” is possible but that smart meters grant no additional powers to disconnect than with standard meters. A spokesman for the energy giant said they would never disconnect a customer without an engineer visiting the property.

However the question then is why fit them? I will guess because same meters are used in France where their tariff limits maximum power, so you pay less for a 30A supply than for a 60A supply.

We are told they are very secure, however in USA there have been court cases where some one has been sacked and then disrupted the system. As to how it is turned off we don't know, can some one mistake an address? So turn off supply to 1 Llewelyn street Shotton instead of 1 Llewelyn street Bryn-y-baal, or 10 castle street instead of 10A?

I am not worried about being turned off for non payment or a house fire, however if the fire brigade can request a disconnection or any other emergency service like police then there is a possibility of error, and if not, why have the ability?

Years ago I had a tool from Scottish Power that clipped on the supply lead, this gave me an approximate reading of power used (no power factor correction) and told the supplier what I had used, so the estimated bill was within a few pounds of what was actually used, once a year or so this was corrected with an actual reading. It was no more that £5 out, which is to my mind good enough, when compared to this old system, the only advantage of the smart meter is the remote disconnection function.

When I had the Scottish Power unit, I started to monitor power use, however it was really useless as not a clue which circuit was using the power, was it the freezer or fridge not a clue. Now the plug in power meter helps, you can see faults, when for example the freezer never switches off, but for whole supply that is rather useless.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

there surely is no way in which a consumer can 'control' a smart meter, by any means?

Yes.

They can make it register a lower usage by turning things off.



Sorry.

Goodness knows whether we can trust what we're being told, but we are being told that all suppliers have agreed that they won't do that, even when it is technologically possible.

They say that now.

Always remember that "plans" has a very specific meaning in officialese - when they say "there are no plans to..." it must never be taken to mean "we have no intention of...". A company or a govt department may have absolutely cast-in-stone intentions to do something, but until they start formally planning it they can truthfully say "we are not planning to..."

 

[ericmark]

I read reports like this and problem is once solved you rarely hear what happened. But it puts me off.

 

[AndyPRK]

We must remember is it the government which is forcing energy company's to roll out smart meters. If they don't they get fined.

I was looking at a new tariff last week, it said, not available if you currently have a smart meter, oh good I thought, then further down said, must have sm installed within x months otherwise will revert to standard tariff.

 

[JohnW2]

We must remember is it the government which is forcing energy company's to roll out smart meters. If they don't they get fined.

I haven't paid all that my attention to this stuff because, quite frankly, I have far more important things to worry about. However, everything I've read in terms of government policy/updates seems to indicate that the current government plan/policy is that all consumers should be offered a smart meter by the end of 2020. Consumers aren't obliged to accept that offer, and I've seen no suggestion that suppliers will/would be penalised if they didn't.

I was looking at a new tariff last week, it said, not available if you currently have a smart meter, oh good I thought, then further down said, must have sm installed within x months otherwise will revert to standard tariff.

Is there a "not" missing from that sentence? As I said, my supplier (E.ON) does offer a slightly cheaper tariff if one has a smart meter, but the difference is really too small to be of any great importance.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I read reports like this and problem is once solved you rarely hear what happened. But it puts me off.

That's just a matter of a malfunctioning meter giving incorrect readings, and that's just as likely to happen with a non-smart meter as with a smart one.

In fact, if the smart meter system is working intelligently, it theoretically ought to be possible for the supplier to detect (and rectify) many such meter problems before the consumer is even aware of a problem (e.g. if there is a sudden, unexplained, persistent and large increase in apparent usage) - in a way that is not possible with a non-smart meter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bri160356]

I haven't paid all that my attention to this stuff because, quite frankly, I have far more important things to worry about. However, everything I've read in terms of government policy/updates seems to indicate that the current government plan/policy is that all consumers should be offered a smart meter by the end of 2020. Consumers aren't obliged to accept that offer, and I've seen no suggestion that suppliers will/would be penalised if they didn't.
Is there a "not" missing from that sentence? As I said, my supplier (E.ON) does offer a slightly cheaper tariff if one has a smart meter, but the difference is really too small to be of any great importance.

Kind Regards, John

Energy companies are given smart-meter installation targets. If those targets are not met the Energy company is fined.

EDF for example:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/975087/edf-energy-smart-meter-penalty-missed-target

Hence, energy companies are under constant pressure to persuade their customers to have smart meters installed;...simply offering customers a smart-meter installation (which said customer subsequently refuses) does not count toward the energy suppliers installation targets.

 

[JohnW2]

Energy companies are given smart-meter installation targets. If those targets are not met the Energy company is fined. .... EDF for example:
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/975087/edf-energy-smart-meter-penalty-missed-target
Hence, energy companies are under constant pressure to persuade their customers to have smart meters installed;...simply offering customers a smart-meter installation (which said customer subsequently refuses) does not count toward the energy suppliers installation targets.

Fair enough, but I would be very interested to see how a Court (or, maybe a Judge undertaking a Judicial Review) would react to this if a supplier challenged such a fine on the basis that the number of offers of smart meters they had made had met the government targets. It would seem at least a little odd that a company could be fined because of the actions (declining offers of smart meters) of its customers, over which it had no direct control - it would be a bit like fining a car manufacturer because a driver had failed to use a manufacturer-supplied seatbelt!

I have to say that I really do struggle to understand what appreciable benefits the government think will result from the widespread deployment of smart meters, per se - and, particularly given the history of smart-meter rollout, it is likely to be many decades, if not many 'lifetimes', before a system which goes beyond 'just smart meters' could/would be universally deployed - certainly not something that I need to worry about!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Don't forget the suppliers are already being paid for this.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I just called my electricity company to ask about moving the electricity meter to the garage. The operator said that I was due to have my meter removed and replaced with a smart meter in the following two weeks. This is the first I hear of this. Also when I asked where does this meter connect to, he said it is like a small laptop or tablet and it is wifi so it does not connect to anything and through wifi tells the electricity company how much electricity I have spent.

I am very confused as to how this meter knows how much I have used if it is not connected to the underground mains in.

If that is what they said, then they got it wrong. It sends its data via the mobile network, back to the suppliers website via the mobile network, either once per month, per week, per day, or with a once per day upload - every 30minutes. You get an indoor display which displays current consumption and a crude graph for the past 24 hour period and the cost.

It is >YOUR CHOICE< whether to have one, not the suppliers.

 

[JohnW2]

Don't forget the suppliers are already being paid for this.

Paid by whom? I thought the 'rollout' was being funded by across-the-board increases in what they charge all customers for electricity and gas. If that's the case, and if (as one would imagine) the regulator does not allow them to 'make an appreciable profit' out of the exercise, what they recover from (all) customers will presumably only be the amount needed to cover their smart-meter-installing costs, wouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If that is what they said, then they got it wrong. It sends its data via the mobile network, back to the suppliers website via the mobile network, either once per month, per week, per day, or with a once per day upload - every 30minutes. You get an indoor display which displays current consumption and a crude graph for the past 24 hour period and the cost.

Indeed - that's why I questioned ericmark''s suggestion that a smart meter would enable him to monitor (and 'control') the smart meter over the Internet. I presume that there is no theoretical reason why consumer's could not be given on-line access to (limited aspects of) the supplier's database - but I haven't heard of any supplier offering that (have I missed it?).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Make sure they are fitting a meter with the latest version of the software (SMECS 2), otherwise when you change supplier your smart meter becomes a dumb meter. I've had one since Dec- so far so good, handy not having to remember to read the meter every month (tricky when I'm away a fair bit), useful for seeing what the base load is and reminding me I've left the garage lights on (there are other ways of doing this, the cheapie current clamp meters are fairly good).

Yes - I am now on my third SM and due for a fourth after my fourth swap of supplier. Latest supplier says they will be fitting a SMECS 2, or updating my SMECS 1 in March, maybe. Basically my SM's have only been smart for about 50% of the time they have been fitted, due to delays between switching suppliers and a replacement meters (E & G) being installed - all were physically identical. It is a complete shambles, did no one expect customer would ever swap suppliers?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Paid by whom? I thought the 'rollout' was being funded by across-the-board increases in what they charge all customers for electricity and gas. If that's the case, and if (as one would imagine) the regulator does not allow them to 'make an appreciable profit' out of the exercise, what they recover from (all) customers will presumably only be the amount needed to cover their smart-meter-installing costs, wouldn't it?

Yes, and if they don't install as many as they should - everyone - then they presumably still have been paid for all the ones they have not installed.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indeed - that's why I questioned ericmark''s suggestion that a smart meter would enable him to monitor (and 'control') the smart meter over the Internet. I presume that there is no theoretical reason why consumer's could not be given on-line access to (limited aspects of) the supplier's database - but I haven't heard of any supplier offering that (have I missed it?).

Kind Regards, John

You do get access to your consumption figures, via your suppliers website once you have logged in. The granularity of the data, depends upon the regularity of the meter's consumption reports - monthly, weekly, daily or every 30 minutes uploaded a max of once per day as a batch. It also depends upon the supplier making the facility available to the customer - not all do, and the data frequency you request. I always request the 30 minute option, where the option is available, which makes it easy to spot your overnight base electrical loading.