smoking ban

[markie]

...the way things are going it'll soon be an offence to smoke while driving anyway in the same way as using a mobile phone..

I bleeding well hope so - when I see a car dawdling, or wavering, or drifting across a lane, as a result of not concentrating, it turns out more often than not that the driver is either on the phone or smoking.

By your post I take it you don't smoke ( wise man ) do you have a mobile phone ? is it hands free ? do you have an radio in your car ? do you have a CD player in your car ?

 

[ninebob]

...the way things are going it'll soon be an offence to smoke while driving anyway in the same way as using a mobile phone..

I bleeding well hope so - when I see a car dawdling, or wavering, or drifting across a lane, as a result of not concentrating, it turns out more often than not that the driver is either on the phone or smoking.

Can you actually quote examples? Mobiles, yes - because they avert your concentration in more ways than one, and you can't periodically replace your hand on the wheel whilst mid-conversation. But please explain how smoking affects driving any more than using your indicator, or changing gear.

 

[markie]

ninebob you beat me to it oops no you didn't

 

[Softus]

By your post I take it you don't smoke ( wise man )

Never have. This isn't wisdom - my father smoked enough for several generations.

do you have a mobile phone ? is it hands free ?

Yes, and yes.

do you have an radio in your car ? do you have a CD player in your car ?

Yes, and no.

Can you actually quote examples?

A woman in tarty make-up yesterday in Hertford. A bloke with too many tattoos in a Mondeo last Saturday. How many do you want?

But please explain how smoking affects driving any more than using your indicator, or changing gear.

I don't know how, nor did I claim to know how, and since I don't smoke I don't ever expect to know how.

I don't know how the presence of extra estrogen and progesterone causes a woman to temporarily hate me, but my observation that it happens is no less valid.

Don't forget, any argument that a smoker presents is inevitably under the influence either of a drug or the symptoms of withdrawal of that drug.

 

[markie]

By your post I take it you don't smoke ( wise man )

Never have. This isn't wisdom - my father smoked enough for several generations.

do you have a mobile phone ? is it hands free ?

Yes, and yes.

do you have an radio in your car ? do you have a CD player in your car ?

Yes, and no.

Do you ever answer your phone while driving ? do you have an coversation while driving ?

Do you change stations when your driving ? ( if the music is pants ) ?

You know what i'm getting at

 

[ninebob]

Can you actually quote examples?

A woman in tarty make-up yesterday in Hertford. A bloke with too many tattoos in a Mondeo last Saturday. How many do you want?

I would suggest that for you to have noticed such distinguishing features on the drivers in question (having already alleged that they were "wavering, or drifting across a lane" - not stationary in traffic), your attention was substantially more diverted than somebody smoking a cigarette whilst looking at the road ahead.

 

[Softus]

Do you ever answer your phone while driving ? do you have an coversation while driving ?

Yes, and yes.

Do you change stations when your driving ? ( if the music is pants ) ?

Yes.

You know what i'm getting at

Yes. You're implying that the things that I do while driving are at least as distracting as smoking while driving. I have two reasons for disagreeing:

1. I see more people being distracted by smoking and using a non-hands-free mobile than by other causes. Having ridden motorcycles for years I'm acutely aware of small deviations in concentration that show up in lack of precise control of car position.

2. Someone who smokes while driving is under the influence of a drug. It's no coincidence that smokers mostly tend to do nothing else while smoking, other than staring either dreamily or disconsolately into the distance.

I submit that to have noticed such distinguishing features on the drivers (having already alleged that they were "wavering, or drifting across a lane" - not stationary in traffic), that your attention was substantially more diverted than somebody smoking a cigarette whilst looking at the road ahead.

I had the advantage of being stationary at the time, on both occasions. The woman's tarty face was glaringly obvious as she scowled at the bloke who'd sounded his horn at her. The tattoos were obvious as they utterly covered the arm that hung out of the window, leading to a hand that was holding a "fag" instead of being on the steering wheel.

If you want to have any chance of dismissing my observations by showing me to be a hypocrite, then you're going to need to get your facts straight first.

And if you don't have enough spare capacity to notice distiguishing features of other drivers while driving, perhaps you shouldn't really be driving.

 

[ninebob]

2. Someone who smokes while driving is under the influence of a drug. It's no coincidence that smokers mostly tend to do nothing else while smoking, other than staring either dreamily or disconsolately into the distance.

Let me be quite clear here. I do not like being a smoker, and am about to embark on the giving up process, again, and hopefully be successful.

However -

1. Smoking is not a drug which impairs driving or any other ability. Quite conversely, nicotine is a short-term stimulant. I get the impression that you're comparing it to driving under the influence of alcohol, which is an untruth.

2. As you have already stated you're not a smoker, you'll be unaware of the mechanics of the addiction. If you'd read Allen Carr's excellent book, you'd understand that to a smoker, the state one is in whilst smoking a cigarette is, to the smoker, one of absolute normality. A smoker driving whilst deprived of his nicotine fix is a much more dangerous proposition.

I therefore ask again, having removed the perception that we're driving along in a drug induced state - how is it more dangerous - physically - to occasionally raise a cigarette to one's mouth, than it is to change gear, or operate other controls within the car?

 

[Spark123]

So what about ending up with a face full of fag ash when the wind blows the wrong way in the window, fag end drops off and tries to set fire to the drivers seat? Flicking fag buts into the road into oncoming traffic, or it ending up on the back seat? (btw I'll hold my hand up, I used to smoke in the car ). Been off the cigs over 2 years now!!
I own a mobile phone, but don't bother answering it when I'm in the car - I don't bother answering it much anyway - great things voicemail. CD player yes, though I have buttons on the steering column for it. I talk to passengers but when I'm about to crash they generally shut up.

 

[markie]

Do you ever answer your phone while driving ? do you have an coversation while driving ?

Yes, and yes.

Do you change stations when your driving ? ( if the music is pants ) ?

Yes.

You know what i'm getting at

Yes. You're implying that the things that I do while driving are at least as distracting as smoking while driving. I have two reasons for disagreeing:

1. I see more people being distracted by smoking and using a non-hands-free mobile than by other causes. Having ridden motorcycles for years I'm acutely aware of small deviations in concentration that show up in lack of precise control of car position.

2. Someone who smokes while driving is under the influence of a drug. It's no coincidence that smokers mostly tend to do nothing else while smoking, other than starting either dreamily of disconsolately into the distance.

I must say I can tell you don't smoke, if you think smoking a tab makes your awearness go AWOL
So when your on your phone ( hands free ) chatting away to an cilent reguarding this and that, are you totally focused on the road a head, is your mind on your driving only.

 

[markie]

So what about ending up with a face full of fag ash when the wind blows the wrong way in the window, fag end drops off and tries to set fire to the drivers seat? Flicking fag buts into the road into oncoming traffic, or it ending up on the back seat? (btw I'll hold my hand up, I used to smoke in the car ). Been off the cigs over 2 years now!!
I own a mobile phone, but don't bother answering it when I'm in the car - I don't bother answering it much anyway - great things voicemail. CD player yes, though I have buttons on the steering column for it. I talk to passengers but when I'm about to crash they generally shut up.

When you say about the tab end droping off, you have a point with that ( it's happened to me ) but then you could say the same thing about if you have your window down and a bee flys in then all hell breaks out

 

[markie]

I think i've started a war between smokers and no-smokers

 

[Softus]

Let me be quite clear here. I do not like being a smoker, and am about to embark on the giving up process, again, and hopefully be successful.

If that's what you want, then I sincerely hope you succeed, but don't think I'm judging you because you smoke - I've only been talking about smoking whilst driving.

However -

1. Smoking is not a drug which impairs driving or any other ability. Quite conversely, nicotine is a short-term stimulant. I get the impression that you're comparing it to driving under the influence of alcohol, which is an untruth.

I've not mentioned alcohol at all. However, nicotine is an addictive drug, and as such impairs the ability of addicts to rationally and dispassionately understand the pros and cons of using that drug while doing something else (e.g. driving).

2. As you have already stated you're not a smoker, you'll be unaware of the mechanics of the addiction. If you'd read Allen Carr's excellent book, you'd understand that to a smoker, the state one is in whilst smoking a cigarette is, to the smoker, one of absolute normality.

I can understand that reasoning, and I can even accept it. However, my observation that, of the cars that I see being driven with poor concentration, most of the drivers are holding either a cigarette or a mobile phone, remains valid.

It isn't necessary for me to explain the mechanics of those lapses in concentration, any more than I need to explain why pheasants invariably run away from cars closing in on them instead of simply flying away - as if they've temporarily forgotten that they can. Challenging me to explain why pheasants appear to be, for want of a better term, mind-numbingly stupid, is pointless, because understanding it, or not understanding it, won't change their behaviour.

A smoker driving whilst deprived of his nicotine fix is a much more dangerous proposition.

OK. If it would make them safer then I advocate that smokers do nothing but smoke whilst driving.

I therefore ask again, having removed the perception that we're driving along in a drug induced state - how is it more dangerous - physically - to occasionally raise a cigarette to one's mouth, than it is to change gear, or operate other controls within the car?

You haven't removed any perception, but that aside, I suggest that it's for you to explain it. I've never said that it's more dangerous, or even that it's dangerous.

I think i've started a war between smokers and no-smokers

Or between a drug-user and someone who hasn't drunk any alcohol, or smoked, even passively, for more than 24 hours.

 

[markie]

Thats what I said ( smokers and no-smokers )

 

[Spark123]

When you say about the tab end droping off, you have a point with that ( it's happened to me ) but then you could say the same thing about if you have your window down and a bee flys in then all hell breaks out

Bee, where!!!

Can't remember the last time I suffered with bees in the car, either there isn't as many about, the wind deflectors on the windows of my car splat them before they get a chance or I am driving around with air con on and the windows up .