Socket for vacuum cleaner from lighting circuit?!

[JohnW2]

Hi folks. I realise the the person who would probably have most interest in this does not appear to be any longer with us, but ....

.. I recently stayed in a hotel which started life as an 18th century coaching inn. Whilst sitting at my table in the restaurant, I found myself just adjacent to what is shown in photo below. I suppose it may not be 'as it seems', and the cable in surface trunking may be related to the fact that the building is listed, but the (double) socket is certainly in a location which (in contrast to the situation in a loft) is probably quite likely to be used by a cleaner to plug in his/her vacuum cleaner.

Any comments?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jurassicspark]

Is there another floor above? Could be a spur from the socket above.

Bodgery we find nowadays, oh it never gets old! Diy Dave might have been there.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Any comments?

Yes. It seems to me you are just guessing.

 

[JohnW2]

Is there another floor above? Could be a spur from the socket above.

It could be - but that doesn't alter the fact that the socket appears to be supplied via (seemingly quite 'thin') flex which is emerging from a ceiling rose.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Yes. It seems to me you are just guessing.

Sure, guessing about some things. However, as I've just written, there is no guessing involved in observing that the socket appears to be supplied via (seemingly quite 'thin') flex which is emerging from a ceiling rose.

Would you regard what we see (not guess) as 'acceptable'? I'm sure that there are some who would point out that a ceiling rose is not 'rated' for even 13A (if a fused spur from a sockets circuit) let alone 20/26A - and that before considering the adequacy(or otherwise) of the flex.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jurassicspark]

Well, as long as it works, it works.​

 

[JohnW2]

Well, as long as it works, it works.​

Does it, I wonder?

I have not yet had an opportunity to see if it 'works' (or if the lights continue to work!) when a cleaner plugs in an industrial vacuum cleaner

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

It does seem like the ceiling rose is feeding double socket. However the ceiling rose may be fed from a socket circuit.

Each time I go to the doctors I look at the lumps of plastic in the waiting room sockets. And also feel that's wrong as unlikely the lumps of plastic are to BS 1362/3 can never remember which is the fuse and which is plug and socket, and did say about it once.

But some times we need to just turn off and enjoy your meal or get ones injections. Sure next EICR it will be listed.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Each time I go to the doctors I look at the lumps of plastic in the waiting room sockets.

I once handed the surgery manager a copy of the mandatory NHS guidance stating that these had to be removed. Guess what happened.

 

[pete01]

I once handed the surgery manager a copy of the mandatory NHS guidance stating that these had to be removed. Guess what happened.

They left them in? I did the same at my sons school and they still use them.

 

[SUNRAY]

I once handed the surgery manager a copy of the mandatory NHS guidance stating that these had to be removed. Guess what happened.

My daughter first pointed me in the NHS direction as a preschool manager, within weeks she had turned round the views of the three doctors and two dental surgeries they used by showing them a socket with a pin left in the earth which one of her preschool children had done.

 

[JohnW2]

It does seem like the ceiling rose is feeding double socket. However the ceiling rose may be fed from a socket circuit.

It could be - but you are usually the first person to comment about the 'rating' of ceiling roses, aren't you?

Anyway, if it really were being fed from a sockets circuit, why the ceiling rose, and why flex?

But some times we need to just turn off and enjoy your meal or get ones injections.

That's what I did (the former!)

Sure next EICR it will be listed.

Probably ... but how coded, I wonder? It wouldn't surprise me at all if it had been like that at the time of the last several EICRs/PIRs

As a matter of interest, how would you (or others) code it ... (a) if it is coming from a lighting circuit, (b) if it is a fused spur from a sockets circuit and (c) if it is an unfused spur from a sockets circuit (in all cases assuming that the flex is 'adequate' - which I'm not convinced is necessarily the case)


Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

As a matter of interest, how would you (or others) code it ... (a) if it is coming from a lighting circuit, (b) if it is a fused spur from a sockets circuit and (c) if it is an unfused spur from a sockets circuit (in all cases assuming that the flex is 'adequate' - which I'm not convinced is necessarily the case)


Kind Regards, John

a/ If it's on a 6A circuit why would it require any code?
b/ correctly sized fuse for the cable why would it require any code?
c/ if the flex is the correct size for the OCPD why would it require any code?

 

[Murdochcat]

The flex could be running from the socket …..

 

[JohnW2]

a/ If it's on a 6A circuit why would it require any code?

Well, unless one can successfully argue that the 'design current' represented by a double socket is 6A or less, the situation would be in violation of 433.1.1(i). That's why I find it rather odd that the regs explicitly allow BS1363 accessories to be connected to a 'lighting circuit'.

One might expect that, n a hotel, the lighting circuits might well not be 6A, but even 16A would be questionable if the 'load'were a double socket.

b/ correctly sized fuse for the cable why would it require any code?

If we're talking about a 13A fused spur, then eric would presumably point out that ceiling roses are not ';rated'; for 13A.

c/ if the flex is the correct size for the OCPD why would it require any code?

Similar to (b), but worse. Ceiling roses are certainly not 'rated' for 20/26A.

Kind Regards, John