Socket for vacuum cleaner from lighting circuit?!

[JohnW2]

Flex is as valid as any other cable. Regs allow its use as fixed wiring.

I realise that, but my question remains ...

.... would a 'proper electrician' use flex to wire a permanent socket?

I have seen many a socket fed with flex in supermarkets.

I suppose that partially answers my question, but if/when they do that is it perhaps for some specific reason, or simply because they regard flex and T+E as being 'interchangeable'.?

Would your answer be any different if I asked "... would a 'proper electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket?" ?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Speculate all you like but life is far to short to be wasting time on such matters .

You are under absolutely no obligation to waste your time in reading my posts, but you seem to find it hard to resist responding to anything I write.

 

[securespark]

I realise that, but my question remains ...



I suppose that partially answers my question, but if/when they do that is it perhaps for some specific reason, or simply because they regard flex and T+E as being 'interchangeable'.?

Would your answer be any different if I asked "... would a 'proper electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket?" ?

Kind Regards, John

Well, some ceiling hung sockets in supermarkets are wired in flex because it is flexible.

Others are fixed to steel shelving and wired in flex as it is easier to route round the shelves.

But my answer wouldn't be any different as long as the cable CSA was compatible with the CPD.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Flex is as valid as any other cable. Regs allow its use as fixed wiring.

I have seen many a socket fed with flex in supermarkets.

and you will find all the wiring within a touring caravan, has to be in flexible.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Would your answer be any different if I asked "... would a 'proper electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket?" ?

Probably not, unless there were a specific need for it - isn't flex more expensive than T&E?

 

[JohnW2]

Well, some ceiling hung sockets in supermarkets are wired in flex because it is flexible.
Others are fixed to steel shelving and wired in flex as it is easier to route round the shelves.

OK but, as I implied might be the case, those are both situations in which there is a reasonable job-specific reason for favouring flex.

But my answer wouldn't be any different as long as the cable CSA was compatible with the CPD.

If we were talking about an answer to the question "is it valid and allowed by regs", then my answer would be the same as yours, However what if the questions were (expanded a bit further!) ...

""... would a 'proper electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket,if there were no job-specific reasons for favouring flex?" ??

In my time, I've seen a fair few sockets (commonly 'spurs') wired with flex, but I think most, if not all, have been done by DIYers, not professional electricians. Maybe I'm just suffering from a limited amount of experience/exposure?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

and you will find all the wiring within a touring caravan, has to be in flexible.

Indeed, another situation in which there is a 'good reason' for using flex.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Probably not, unless there were a specific need for it - isn't flex more expensive than T&E?

I think you may have worded you comment back-to-front, since you seem to be saying that your answer would probably not be different from secure's view that flex is as appropriate a think for an electrician to use as is T+E ... or have I misunderstood someone?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

If it makes any difference, in 1990's one whole floor of this building was gutted back to bare walls and totally refurbished. the electrical work was done by foreign subbies with flex. The consultants refused to accept accept it but being unable to find any rules or regulations to the contrary very quickly changed their mind when legal papers started arriving.

 

[JohnW2]

If it makes any difference, in 1990's one whole floor of this building was gutted back to bare walls and totally refurbished. the electrical work was done by foreign subbies with flex. The consultants refused to accept accept it but being unable to find any rules or regulations to the contrary very quickly changed their mind when legal papers started arriving.

I thought we were all agreed (thankfully, since it'true, that using flex for fixed wiring is acceptable to BS7671?

However,given that you have posted the above, I suppose I need to yet further expand my question, to ....

"... would a 'proper UK electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket,if there were no job-specific reasons for favouring flex?" ??



The one thing about your story which I don't really understand is that I would have thought that the "foreign subbies" would have been very specific instructions as to what materials they should use. I presume that you're not talking about flexible singles, (in conduit) are you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I thought we were all agreed (thankfully, since it'true, that using flex for fixed wiring is acceptable to BS7671?

However,given that you have posted the above, I suppose I need to yet further expand my question, to ....

"... would a 'proper UK electrician' use flex in trunking to wire a permanent socket,if there were no job-specific reasons for favouring flex?" ??



The one thing about your story which I don't really understand is that I would have thought that the "foreign subbies" would have been very specific instructions as to what materials they should use. I presume that you're not talking about flexible singles, (in conduit) are you?

Kind Regards, John

Apologies I didn't give the whole details.
M&E contract awarded to a major British company, I can't remember who but along the lines of N.G.Baily, Laings etc, they subbed out the electrical work to a less well known British contractor who in turn used an agency to secure the tools guys, they seemed to be of all nationalities. The instructions being to use trunking and conduit. The job was installed with a 'backbone' of steel trunking but mostly rigid and flexible plastic conduit and flexible cable, not singles.

 

[JohnW2]

... "M&E contract awarded to a major British company, I can't remember who but along the lines of N.G.Baily, Laings etc, they subbed out the electrical work to a less well known British contractor who in turn used an agency to secure the tools guys, they seemed to be of all nationalities. The instructions being to use trunking and conduit. The job was installed with a 'backbone' of steel trunking but mostly rigid and flexible plastic conduit and flexible cable, not singles."

Fair enough, but I still think that whoever did the job should have been given detailed instructions as to what should be done, and what materials should be used. If that happened and they nevertheless did something different from those instructions, it's clear who was 'to blame' - and it's similarly fairly clear 'who was to blame' if the instructions were not explicit enough to adequately define what should be done (and with what materials)

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Fair enough, but I still think that whoever did the job should have been given detailed instructions as to what should be done, and what materials should be used. If that happened and they nevertheless did something different from those instructions, it's clear who was 'to blame' - and it's similarly fairly clear 'who was to blame' if the instructions were not explicit enough to adequately define what should be done (and with what materials)

Kind Regards, John

The whole point is the job was safely completed and not in contravention of any regs and low smoke was used as specified. I still have a decent amount of a drum of 2.5mm² 3 core left over after they'd gone.

 

[JohnW2]

The whole point is the job was safely completed and not in contravention of any regs and low smoke was used as specified.

Fair enough - but, as I said, I don't think anyone has ever disputed the fact that flex is compliant with regs.

My questions have been about how likely it is that a professional UK electrician would use flex to wire fixed sockets, unless there is a good job-specific reason for favouring flex. I suspect that we all know the answer to that, but no-one seems to actually want to voice that answer (although I more-or-less have!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

I cannot see what you're getting at. It's acceptable to use, so what's the issue?

It might be that someone has a roll of flex on the van that would do the job.

You keep stressing a UK electrician, yet you have already agreed it is compliant.

There doesn't have to be a "good job-specific reason".

It's compliant, end of story!