Solar Panel installations

[stillp]

Who knows why someone might need to withdraw their capital investment?

Your mate might be saving £2k, but he's losing the use of £25. How long will the panels last? If they last 25 years (unlikely) then he's writing off £1k per year.

What will happen if he needs to sell his house? Some houses have failed to sell because of solar installations. My local estate agents tell me that most solar installations make zero difference to the selling price of the house - that would be a £25k loss.

 

[Norcon]

"but he's losing the use of £25k"

Its earning him at least £2k per year.
How is that losing the use of it?

In 25 years it will have earned at least £50K. His property will never be sold.
And as I said thats not even factoring in the rocs payments.

What banking investment will earn £2k per year on £25k?

 

[pjcomp]

Guy we are working for has just commissioned a 20kw system for £25k and is selling to the grid. That means all his own electric is free.

His own electric is not free, unfortunately, and if he truly believes that he's been sold a pup. Solar panels generate during daylight. If, during daylight, you generate 3kW and use 2.5kW you have free electricity; if you generate 2.5kW and use 3kW you have to buy in the extra. And in the evening when you turn the lights on you have to buy that because you're not generating.

It may well be that the amount he receives from FIT payments equates to what he spends on buying in power, so the two balance out and he can regard his electric as "free", but then the income is not going against his capital outlay - you can't but two things with the same money.

pj

 

[Norcon]

All his electric is free.
Because he generates and sells more than he uses.
It was pumping out 8kw a few weeks back in the middle of winter.

 

[DIYspanner]

How many panels are required for 20kw energy output?

I know that PV panels must face predominantly towards the sun and unclouded sunlight for maximum efficiency.

 

[Norcon]

He's got a very big roof. Not his home.
I'd estimate his system to generate around 18500 kw/h per year.
Here in the province you will receive 16p per KWh from the grid.

That's £3k per year.
And of course electricity prices are set to do nothing but increase.

 

[stillp]

For how long do you estimate he will generate 18500 kWh per year?
Many panels will only take around 7 years befor etheir output drops by half.

 

[Norcon]

Most or all of them?
He'll be rich by then in any case when you factor in the rocs payments.

I think he also received an installation grant. His system is from the elites of the engineering world. The Germans.
Will ask him next time about the grant.

This guy tested his old thirty old panel and it still outputs the same power as thirty years ago...
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/testing-thirty-year-old-photovoltaic-module

Are you saying the technology today has actually taken a step backwards?

 

[bernardgreen]

Are you saying the technology today has actually taken a step backwards?

The quality has gone down to enable them to be mass produced at low cost.

Compare the price per watt

In 1980,~~~~ Davidson was selling 33-watt Arco Solar modules for $275 each.

 

[stillp]

Thirty years ago they were less efficient but perhaps more stable due to the lower current densities.

 

[Lower]

For how long do you estimate he will generate 18500 kWh per year?
Many panels will only take around 7 years befor etheir output drops by half.

If that it true, why are ZNShine panels offered with an insurance backed guarantee that they will still produce 80% of their designed output after 20 years?

 

[stillp]

I don't know. Perhaps they are banking on only a few people claiming. Maybe successful claimants will only receive replacement panels. Maybe they won't be around in 20 yesrs. Maybe the guarantee is conditional on the original purchaser still being in the house.
On the other hand, perhaps it's a genuine offer and they're panels really will last 20 years.
How long is the guarantee on their grid tie inverters?

I'm not against solar PV by the way, I'm just against the con merchants who mislead the gullible into parting with their life savings in exchange for limited returns, and no possibility of recovering their investment.
There are people who've done well out of timeshare, PPI, and probably other scams, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[Norcon]

I thought their yearly degradation rate was between 0.5% and 1%.

 

[stillp]

For how long do you estimate he will generate 18500 kWh per year?
Many panels will only take around 7 years befor etheir output drops by half.

If that it true, why are ZNShine panels offered with an insurance backed guarantee that they will still produce 80% of their designed output after 20 years?

From their website: "This results in a higher warranty for the degradation of 92 % for 10 years and 85% for 15 years (all in all 25 years). Also the manufacture guarantee is effective for 10 years."
I'm not sure what they mean by a 25 year warranty but a manufacterer guarantee of 10 years, but they do seem to be predicting a lower degradation that I had suggested, based on the data sheets for the panels a friend of mine had installed.

 

[winston1]

How many panels are required for 20kw energy output?

I know that PV panels must face predominantly towards the sun and unclouded sunlight for maximum efficiency.

80. Each outputs around 250 watts.

He must have an enormous roof!