Spur query

[cmarks]

Hello,

In my utility room I have a single socket, which is part of the ring main. To the left of this socket, is what looks like a single socket, with no plug holes - just the offset switch (please see the picture, sorry I'm not sure what it's called), this is again part of the ring - fed from the socket then off elsewhere. These two sockets are above a worktop.

Below the work top is a single spur, coming from the socket with the switch and no holes, which powers our washing machine (so we can turn the washing machine off/on without having to pull it out every time I guess - we've similar in the kitchen for the fridge).

We're planning on putting a dishwasher next to the washing machine. Could I check that I'm alright to change the single socket (fed via a single cable) below the worktop to a double socket?

There's no fuse in this socket with the switch, so at the same time would it be worth changing this face plate to a spurred faceplate for added peace of mind?

Here's a picture to clarify what I mean:

Untitled

• cmarks
• 3 Sep 2011
• 1

What is the correct name for the switched socket with no plug holes in too please, would be good to know as I can't seem to find out what it is searching around... I've not seen light switches, with the switch near the top of the socket, only in the middle.. so am assuming it's something slightly different?

Thank you!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Edit - misread so will have a rethink

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Do you know how the circuit is configured?
By what you have mentioned it sounds like the socket and switch could by spurs, which would suggest you can not add any additional sockets below the counter to the existing socket for washing machine.
The above counter switch is an isolation switch for your washing machine.
What you could consider is having both appliance isolated separately or replacing the the isolation switch with a Switched Fused Connection Unit, this would allow additional sockets to be added to this part of circuit.
But you will be restricted to 13Amps to cover both these appliances.
The below counter accessory sounds like an outlet plate.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-cooker-outlet-plate/50538
Which means your washing machine has no fuse protecting it other than the main fuse in the consumer unit, this is not good.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is likely a flex outlet plate (does it have a cable clamp and a knock-out for a flex?)

A washing machine and dishwasher would be too much for one run of cable.

Either you can replace the socket with another flex outlet and run a second cable to a new socket for the dishwasher OR-

You will have to do away with this switch and replace with another single socket. You will then not be able to switch off from above the worktop but that doesn't really matter.
You will have to remove the 'link cable' between the socket and flex outlet and run a cable from one (which is already there) to the new double socket and run another cable back to the other.

 

[cmarks]

Thank you.

Changing it to a fused switch sounds good, as it was what I was thinking anyway.. Would 13A be ok for both appliances running at the same time?

What makes you think that they could be spurs? There's a cable from the single socket to the isolation switch, then another cable going elsewhere -plus the spur cable going down to the single socket beneath the worktop..

 

[JohnW2]

Here's a picture to clarify what I mean:

Are there metal 'boxes' behind those socket and swich plates (it doesn't look as if there are)? If not, what are the plates attached to?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Can't say for defo that it is a spur, the circuit could be a radial. That is if the last part of that circuit terminates at the outlet plate of the washing machine.
But you would not know without a good look.
You would have to investigate and do some continuity readings to know for sure.
But if you have any sockets that have three sets of cables(3xlive,3xneutral,3xearth) entering them, that would indicate a spur.

 

[cmarks]

It is likely a flex outlet plate (does it have a cable clamp and a knock-out for a flex?)

A washing machine and dishwasher would be too much for one run of cable.

Either you can replace the socket with another flex outlet and run a second cable to a new socket for the dishwasher OR-

You will have to do away with this switch and replace with another single socket. You will then not be able to switch off from above the worktop but that doesn't really matter.
You will have to remove the 'link cable' between the socket and flex outlet and run a cable from one (which is already there) to the new double socket and run another cable back to the other.

There is no clamp in any of the faceplates, or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[cmarks]

Can't say for defo that it is a spur, the circuit could be a radial. That is if the last part of that circuit terminates at the outlet plate of the washing machine.
But you would not know without a good look.
You would have to investigate and do some continuity readings to know for sure.
But if you have any sockets that have three sets of cables(3xlive,3xneutral,3xearth) entering them that would indicate a spur.

The isolation switch socket has three cables, 1 to the single socket above work top, 1 going elsewhere (up again, I guess back to the CU, no other sockets are around between it and the CU), and one down to the socket underneath the worktop, which is why I thught this was a spur.

I think I'll get a sparky to have a look, it's not as straight forward as I thought and I obviously want to ensure its safe.

Thanks for the help!

 

[cmarks]

Do you know how the circuit is configured?
By what you have mentioned it sounds like the socket and switch could by spurs, which would suggest you can not add any additional sockets below the counter to the existing socket for washing machine.
The above counter switch is an isolation switch for your washing machine.
What you could consider is having both appliance isolated separately or replacing the the isolation switch with a Switched Fused Connection Unit, this would allow additional sockets to be added to this part of circuit.
But you will be restricted to 13Amps to cover both these appliances.
The below counter accessory sounds like an outlet plate.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-cooker-outlet-plate/50538
Which means your washing machine has no fuse protecting it other than the main fuse in the consumer unit, this is not good.

Sorry if i have confused you, the below counter is a single socket, cable coming from the isolation switch. Washing machine is plugged into that..

 

[cmarks]

Here's a picture to clarify what I mean:

Are there metal 'boxes' behind those socket and swich plates (it doesn't look as if there are)? If not, what are the plates attached to?

Kind Regards, John.

Yes, all bsckplates are metal (including the socket underneath the counter)

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The washing machine socket outlet is a spur then, so you can not add extra sockets this as it stands at this moment.
Do you know what the above counter isolator is rated at in amps and what size breaker/fuse is protecting this circuit at the fuse boards?
What I would do is either use another isolation switch or S/FCU (switched fused connection unit) for isolating both appliance at above counter, dropping a socket outlet from each. You can do this and still maintain the circuit whether it be a ring or radial without creating spurs from spurs.
But it is a kitchen and notification/part p regulations should be complied to and best use a registered (competent person) electrician to carry out work and sign off/certificate

 

[cmarks]

Ok great thanks. So spurs can only be single sockets?

I've a friend who is an electrician coming over tonight but useful to know

 

[cmarks]

Oh and the breaker is rated at 32A on the CU..

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Ok great thanks. So spurs can only be single sockets?

no spurs can also be double socket-outlet, but unprotected(without FCU) spurs can only have one accessory connected to them, whether that be a single gang socket or a double gang socket it matters not.

Oh and the breaker is rated at 32A on the CU..

So if the cable is 2.5mm twin and earth, it is likely the circuit is a ring final circuit.