Stock market dealing

[Justin Passing]

They can take all your stake if the stock becomes worthless, but they can't chase you for more. The oil price was unique, I wasn't there, but the price dropped gradually so you could have had a stop-loss, no?
You can so all sorts to protect yourself.. Sure if you just leave it, you lose if a stock becomes worthless. So don't

Unlikely Microsoft will become worthless, or they'll start paying you to install Office.....
The oil got expensive to store.

If the spiv share dealer you're with goes bust, you don't incur his debts. If it's a legit trader with FSCS protection you would have that, though I don't know how much use it would be.

You can only lose more than your stake on one bet, if they have a pot to take from. So if you have a £5k pot and take a £1k bet at 10:1 you can lose it all, but they can't chase you.
If you have a 5k pot and make a £10 bet at 10:1 you can lose £100 from your pot, sure.

Sensible strategy would be something like... if your money goes from 100 to 150, withdraw 30 and use 120 to bet with. WHen that becomes 150, withdraw another 30. I.e. don't risk the lot.

I'm not saying don't use CFDs, be aware what it means. "Simplify as much as possible - but no simpler."

 

[DiyNutJob]

Best to read the small prints before too late. When there is no market, because the market maker is free to withdraw their service when they don't like the market, stops cannot be exercised. They will resume service when the price is at a point where all accounts are wiped out plus more.

 

[Justin Passing]

Well I'd say you don't let it go that far. It's exteemely rare that stocks move that far. If you're talking about a basket of 100 nasdaq stocks, how likely is it, and wouldn't you have other worries?

--

I have just confused the trading help bot.
Assume 2 instruments, +3x Tesla and -3x Tesla. Umm, TSLQ and 3TSL
Buy 100 of each.
a)Tesla falls to 25%
the positive one becomes negative = zero
The negative one becomes 100 ( (-75%) x -3) = £225

b) Price goes to 400
Positive one becomes £1200
Negative one becomes zero.

Tails I win, heads they lose.
(The moves aren't quite what they look at first)

The bot said
Yes, if you buy both the +3x and -3x versions of the instrument and the price of the stock moves far enough, you can potentially profit from both positions. The +3x leveraged instrument will increase in value if the stock price goes up, while the -3x leveraged instrument will increase in value if the stock price goes down. However, it's important to note that leveraged instruments can be highly volatile and carry a higher level of risk. It's crucial to thoroughly understand the risks involved and carefully consider your investment strategy before trading leveraged instruments.

So I have some of each. Yes they do exist. I only put £100 on each for the exercise, so we'll see. I bet there's something "wrong" somewhere.

 

[DiyNutJob]

There is usually a cost to free lunches. Time value decay or overnight interest charges.

 

[Justin Passing]

Yes there is an "adjustment" overnight. But if you buy one day and sell a week later, you can just look at the total and if it's ok, fine.

I know most of the brokers us fancy software to simulate the stock market, though some connect directly. STP is it?
Couldn't care less.

--

How about a weekly game?
This is my first idea - simplifications welcome. If not too simple...
Pick your winners for the next week and we'll see how much we can make .

Roolz:
You must pick 4 stocks for the coming week, and you havea a virtual £20 to put on them.
So you could split it 5,5,5,5 or 10, 6, 3,1
You can't use less than 4.

We have to declare what they are, at the weekend, but so people don't cheat or copy, we do a simple encryption.
Next Friday evening we look them up and work out who won.

You can use those "leveraged " funds but if you do it costs you 2% because the spreads are awful.
So I would post "OK I'm ready, my set comes to 291" (see below)
When all are ready, we reveal.

Use the correct ticker - easy to find on google, yahoo etc.
Say I picked

aapl (Apple)
tsla (tesla)
Hsba (hsbc bank)
snvd ( leveraged "short" nvidia x -3)

Encryption: not robust but can be done in your head:
Numbers all count 1
vowels count 2
consonants B-M count 3,
consonants N to Z count 4

Some mental arithmetic, doesn't take long:
multiply them as you go,
so AAPL is 1 x 1 x 4 x 3 = 12
tsla is 4 x 4 x 3 x 2 = 96
hsba is 3 x 4 x 3 x 2 = 72
snv3 is 4 x 4 x 4 x 1 = 64
(sum = 244)
Then add the sum of all the numbers, 1 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 3 + etc... = 47 in this case.
(thats'so you can't eg swap meta for 3nvd, or something)
Add them all up
244+47 = 291
When all ready, the game is closed, we can reveal our gambits
appl £9
tsla £3
hsba £4
snv3 £4

The next Friday would be calculator time, the sum of the %s which can be found at say Yahoo. (they vary a bit)

Out of curiosity, this week
Apple was ....... 0.63% x 9 = 9.06
Tes.................. - 7.61% x 3 = 2.77
Hsba.......... 4.3% x 4 = 4..17
snv3........... 17.32% take off 2% so 15.32% x4 = 4.61

adds up to £20.61, which is 3.05%.

Anyone up for it?
I'll type that again slowly if it helps.....

 

[DiyNutJob]

If you look at the total and it's not OK, then what? You would have already paid the carry cost that would go towards the bookie's lunch money.

You will learn nothing from virtual betting. When you pay for lessons with real money, you will learn something tangible. The market casino is a very fast teacher.

In a virtual bet, the bookie's interest in the game is not represented and therefore not realistic and un-workable. In any serious betting, there is the house and there is the punter. Remove one, and you don't really have a game. The real life bookie has mathematically proven winning odds. Additionally, it can use other advantages it has, such as kicking you out of the game. It can also rig the game. Additionally, it can prevent you adding more chips to sustain a game, forcing you to fold. Of course, they can also magically cause the roulette ball to land on a negative number. You wouldn't have seen that coming!

 

[Eccles]

I have been doing it for years using LSE run by Jarvis Investment Management. No annual or ISA fees and £10 transaction fees. They also give you a lot of useful data for free. Last year my portfolio income was around 7.5% yield - try and get that from a bank or building society but of course you have to buy the right shares to get that kind of money like Legal and General for example.

 

[Justin Passing]

You will learn nothing from virtual betting.

In the previous post, where it says "How about a game", I'm proposing a game. Did you miss that? Various newspapers have run cometitions over time.
Famously, players like to cite their winds and ignore their losses

When you pay for lessons with real money, you will learn something tangible.

Why the patronising?
I've gained about £20k in the last few weeks. All under the FSCS cover, same as you'd get from a building society, better than Northern Rock. You?
I first mentioned it ina General Discussion thread, where I said what I was going to do, did it and showed the outcome - about 3 times.
I first started decades ago and did well, but then stopped and moved to doing up renters. Now I CBA to leave the house!

You can call the swathe of modern platforms "bookies" if you like but they are regulated, they have to do what it says on the tin. They can't change what the shares do, and their charges are small. There are low charges because it's all done by digital systems, not blokes on phones which we used last century. The days of havng to pay a tenner for a trade are gone. I've recently been trading 10 - 20 times a day. Yes we know the platform has to make a profit, but it's transparent where they do.

 

[DiyNutJob]

20k in a few weeks beats doing up renters. But, I just see the risk and it scares me.

My performance is quite dull in comparison. Most recently, I won my bet on long wickes, and I won my bet on short wickes. After, IG refused to let me bet any more. So, I am just waiting to close out my other bet before closing account. I won on short tpx.l previously, now waiting to close the long on the same. Currently showing £0.386. Will be happy to call out when I exit. I have no time limits on my bets. Might take 5 weeks or 5 years.

 

[Justin Passing]

20k in a few weeks beats doing up renters. But, I just see the risk and it scares me.

My performance is quite dull in comparison. Most recently, I won my bet on long wickes, and I won my bet on short wickes. After, IG refused to let me bet any more. So, I am just waiting to close out my other bet before closing account. I won on short tpx.l previously, now waiting to close the long on the same. Currently showing £0.386. Will be happy to call out when I exit. I have no time limits on my bets. Might take 5 weeks or 5 years.

20k in a few weeks does beat it, though once I was chased after I'd bought a flat at auction and offered enough of a profit that I took it. 5k one day profit, but that was back in the 80's.

TPX ? TPX Impact, crashed by 80% last September? Wel done if the money's there, take it and do it again!
What reason are IG using to stop you? The Farage clause likeas at Coutts?



Stock market's a whole different thing now.. I don't think it's good. It feels like an AI driven bot can make your company worthless overnight, or "worth" a fortune, because the programmer didn't think about that, and the person who bought the package doesn't care. Imagine Gamestop on steroids.
We buy, price goes up we make profit, ah good, so we buy more, make more profit.... The we use co as collateral to borrow and build care homes and fill them with old people paying regularly. Good investment, until charade collapses and building lender forecloses, and sells the buildings as flats. Someone somewhere declares bankruptcy, and does it again.
Still, I'm old and retired and have enough to see me out, with my inbred lust for money, which everyone has to various extents, is keeping me amused.

Gooo on, pick 4 shares for the game. Skip the encryption bit if you like. And I tell you what, you can't lose any real money! Special limited time offer!

 

[DiyNutJob]

IG doesn't like my style. But, all the bookies are afflicted by the same: they can use regulation of intrusive information demand as a tool to refuse business. ISA's are not affected. But there is no way to short in ISA's and so they don't suit me.

You will have to wait for others to play your game. I see no value in game when there is no money in it. I have explained why.

 

[Justin Passing]

I have been doing it for years using LSE run by Jarvis Investment Management. No annual or ISA fees and £10 transaction fees. They also give you a lot of useful data for free. Last year my portfolio income was around 7.5% yield - try and get that from a bank or building society but of course you have to buy the right shares to get that kind of money like Legal and General for example.

Well, ok , that beats what the banks would have given you, but not what they made themselves.
The S&P 500 made 18% in the last 3 months.
L&G shares jumped up 4.5% when their recent quarteries came out. 4 of those a year....
Very big of them to pass you a little.

Heard of Warren Buffet? Big Hedge fund guy, famous for being boring and conservative. You can buy shares in ihis company Berkshire Hathaway. Hardly "smart" to pick it. (BRKA)
72% in 3 years, 22% in the last 12 months. If you'd watched things a bit you would have avoided most of his dips and done better.

Now that you can get 6.15% fixed for a year, I wonder what L & G will return you.

 

[Justin Passing]

WHat is

regulation of intrusive information demand

Did you have a large proportion of your assets with them?
I was asked my net worth, but he top box was £500k+. So easy to tick. Anyone with a house beats that...
One asked for my NI number so I mistakenly reversed some digits.

I'm using less than the FSCS cover limit, which is 85k like any other.

 

[Mottie]

I’m surprised the forum super-investor hasn’t chipped in on this thread.……..

 

[Justin Passing]

I’m surprised the forum super-investor hasn’t chipped in on this thread.……..

The one who said it was all garbage? He keeps his head stuck where he can only see, and fill his head or mouth with, his own ****.