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Stock market dealing
- Thread starter Justin Passing
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Rispec, bro. Yes it can swallow an infinite amount of time and brain..
I assume you still have your crypto?
I learned today that the rate of crypto buying and selling has dropped right down, so for a while at least, the institutions may have their fill..
IF that's true, then we might see the prices settle somewhere, with "enthusiasts" all trying to turn it into a profit. Those are mostly small peoples though who don't affect the price much.
In a bit of a rush of blood to me 'ed I sold most of mine, at 66. It then dropped, so I was happy, then it rose again so I was trying not to look, but it's down again so I'm feeling all better. Since I bought , back when I said, it's well up and I kept a slice for when it goes to a million... or zero. Either is now OK.
Shares, Lloyds, -
I guess you want to have a bit of a dabble and be able to buy and sell easily, and free. Probably with less risk than crypto. Fair enough, lots of boring shares do a whole lot better than the bldg societies.
I'll look at Lloyds.....
Aaargh, bugger that. Fees left right and centre.
I'd say go for Trading212 or eToro.
Both are free.
They both have their foibles. T212 is a bit simpler perhaps, but eToro has some nice features you would probably want to use. eToro has more of a "social" section where you can chat. You can also "Copy Trade" free. That's where you find someone with a good track record (investing rather than day trading) , and arrange for your money to be used for buying and selling what and when they do. You get pretty good returns. Copy trading usually carries a 20% fee but it's free at eToro.
eToro do crypto, but you can use crypto ETFs instead, such as the ones I've been bangin about in this thread.
ETFs are Exchange Traded Funds, which represent a bunch of stocks, E.g. there may be a Japan ETF, which reflects that stock market, or a Real Estate one or a Semiconductor one.
Some are leveraged, so they go up and down at twice the rate. Those can be "dangerous" if the stock drops much. I currently have one for Cocoa x2, which was doing really well until I bought it.
All the brokers have very much the same range of ETFs
You used IG, was it? These are same but simpler probably.
They all have phone apps.
Have a look at some stocks and recent performance. E.g. the semiconductor sector looks very over-bought right now, and has flattened off quite a bit.
If you use a "Stock Screener" or an "ETF Screener" (google for one) like TradingView or Finvest or similar, you can find stocks or sectors doing well.
These are Rheinmetall, Rolls Royce (just normal shares), and Nvidia x3 (an ETF):
Once the thing has cleared say 6% you can put a stop loss there so that you're guaranteed to beat the building soc, and sleep easy.
There are daily lists of "fastest risers" which double in a day. They can be fun, but risky.
This one ran over two days, to today. We all knew about it at the beginning of the yellow line, and if you were watching, the peak wasn't hard to pick:
That's about a 70% rise.
** "British Isas" are being endowed on us soon. Half a million people will dump £5k into RR and the price will rocket. ?? Buy now?? (there's also an RRL3, leveraged ETF)
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@Bod ...
Are you Up, yet?
Same old same old today.
Same broker (fancy crappy new charts).
Same "instruments" as before (That's just the term whch covers anything - share, fund ETP, ETF, whatever)
Crypto rising so the brokers were happy.
I used Coin (Coinbase). WIth hindsight Microstrategy was better - I didn't check.
It ran all day for 16%.
16% x 5 = 80%
£80k x 80% = 64k gain.
That'll do.
If you didn't want to use the "CFD" platform, you could use just a plain one, and use the Coin 3x ETF.
You'd then have made a trifling 48%.
The spread is wider with those, so maybe 46%.
Same incredibly skilful procedure.
You check if bitcoin is rising, or the markets like it, at least.
Yep, Tick
Open the chart.
Move a slider to set the amount.
Click Buy
eat cake
Click Sell
Transfer the excess cash somewhere.
True it's best if you're around to slide up a stop-loss every so often. It takes a about half a minute on a phone.
Let me guess, you couldn't do that because you need to go to work to earn the housekeeping. Right.
Are you Up, yet?
Same old same old today.
Same broker (fancy crappy new charts).
Same "instruments" as before (That's just the term whch covers anything - share, fund ETP, ETF, whatever)
Crypto rising so the brokers were happy.
I used Coin (Coinbase). WIth hindsight Microstrategy was better - I didn't check.
It ran all day for 16%.
16% x 5 = 80%
£80k x 80% = 64k gain.
That'll do.
If you didn't want to use the "CFD" platform, you could use just a plain one, and use the Coin 3x ETF.
You'd then have made a trifling 48%.
The spread is wider with those, so maybe 46%.
Same incredibly skilful procedure.
You check if bitcoin is rising, or the markets like it, at least.
Yep, Tick
Open the chart.
Move a slider to set the amount.
Click Buy
eat cake
Click Sell
Transfer the excess cash somewhere.
True it's best if you're around to slide up a stop-loss every so often. It takes a about half a minute on a phone.
Let me guess, you couldn't do that because you need to go to work to earn the housekeeping. Right.
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D
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Deleted member 294929
It's just a bit too much to understand.
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@
Take it slow, use a "practice" part of a platform with no real money, then once confident you can start with a few quid.
What are the bits which aren't clear?
Investopedia has good explanations, e.g. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stop-lossorder.asp
For those. lets say the price goes up bu "1" a day but then sometimes drops back by 10, all with a bit of jiggling.
The stop-loss price is what you get if the price drops below the stop-loss price. You can move the SL position yourself, or some platforms do it automatically.
So if you set the SL "3" lower than the current price, and the price drops, your value only goes down by 3, or 3 days' gain.
If you set it too close, only say "1" lower than the current price every day, the jiggle will mean you'll keep getting "stopped out" by the jiggle. The actual price might be going down 2 and up 3 every day, so you leave it wiggle room to do that.
Usually, sudden drops bounce back, so you don't want then tripping your stop.
It's comforting, once the thing is in profit (plus 3 in this case), that you come out smiling whatever happens.
Can you set stop-losses on crypto.com?
I can show you an example iof that helps.
It's a bit like a ratchet on a truck jack. If you let go of the handle, the car can only fall to the ratchet position set by the jack.
Great!Yes
Take it slow, use a "practice" part of a platform with no real money, then once confident you can start with a few quid.
What are the bits which aren't clear?
Investopedia has good explanations, e.g. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stop-lossorder.asp
For those. lets say the price goes up bu "1" a day but then sometimes drops back by 10, all with a bit of jiggling.
The stop-loss price is what you get if the price drops below the stop-loss price. You can move the SL position yourself, or some platforms do it automatically.
So if you set the SL "3" lower than the current price, and the price drops, your value only goes down by 3, or 3 days' gain.
If you set it too close, only say "1" lower than the current price every day, the jiggle will mean you'll keep getting "stopped out" by the jiggle. The actual price might be going down 2 and up 3 every day, so you leave it wiggle room to do that.
Usually, sudden drops bounce back, so you don't want then tripping your stop.
It's comforting, once the thing is in profit (plus 3 in this case), that you come out smiling whatever happens.
Can you set stop-losses on crypto.com?
I can show you an example iof that helps.
It's a bit like a ratchet on a truck jack. If you let go of the handle, the car can only fall to the ratchet position set by the jack.
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@Bod ... Have you found a site which comments on the cryptos with some knowledge? The;s always bits of news coming out about some major player buying/selling, commentary on volumes the institutions are taking up, adoptions and rejections. all sorts. The price could be pretty volatile. Or are you just on Hopium? I don't know of any upcoming "catalysts" for a rise, and the chart patterns are maybe looking pessimistic.
"The Market" generally was lifted by a smaller chip maker returning good results, and the Powell man at the FED (in the US) not sounding rattled. That was one day more of general rises. Every week has some major numbers coming out so - gawd knows where we go. Next weekend is one of those psychological mileposts, too. One of these mornings we'll wake up and some of the well off people in the world will be billions of dollars less filthy rich.
I have reorganised things somewhat. Trading out of a S&S Isa means no tax to pay.
"The Market" generally was lifted by a smaller chip maker returning good results, and the Powell man at the FED (in the US) not sounding rattled. That was one day more of general rises. Every week has some major numbers coming out so - gawd knows where we go. Next weekend is one of those psychological mileposts, too. One of these mornings we'll wake up and some of the well off people in the world will be billions of dollars less filthy rich.
I have reorganised things somewhat. Trading out of a S&S Isa means no tax to pay.
D
Deleted member 294929
I've got to leave the share dealing until I have space in my head to look and understand the tools I have available to me on 212.
I'll ask Q's along the way.
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TRy a few wacky "bets" in the practic frorum. One hunch will lose you 100k,, the other will win it.
Trump is speaing at Trump Tower this pm.
The company which is linked with him (I don't care how) currently DWAC is going to be renamed DJT!!
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Happy to report being able to take a few grand from the orange one's company.
Bod are you getting the news and the feel about crypto yet?
I wonder if your new motivation is doing that....
Like today, it was expected that there would be a rise - you could have looked it up if you'd wanted.
One of the "Instruments" out there is called Microstrategy. It's based on crypto, but it goes faster. I mean if btc moves 2% this goes 5%, or something.
There is also an instrument which is 3x leveraged version of it. Yer tiz.
WIth a degree of confidence, you can just click "buy", and if you want to stop you click "close".
As it says, 39% on the day.
You would have done better because you'd have sold when it started to go backwards:
That "pending" order will just be a token, so I can see what it's doing tomorrow alongside main holdings. I use the other half of the platform, using 5x instead of 3x so that's what I'd normally do.
Some people would be happy with 40% in a day. Can't understand it myself....
Bod are you getting the news and the feel about crypto yet?
I wonder if your new motivation is doing that....
Like today, it was expected that there would be a rise - you could have looked it up if you'd wanted.
One of the "Instruments" out there is called Microstrategy. It's based on crypto, but it goes faster. I mean if btc moves 2% this goes 5%, or something.
There is also an instrument which is 3x leveraged version of it. Yer tiz.
WIth a degree of confidence, you can just click "buy", and if you want to stop you click "close".
As it says, 39% on the day.
You would have done better because you'd have sold when it started to go backwards:
That "pending" order will just be a token, so I can see what it's doing tomorrow alongside main holdings. I use the other half of the platform, using 5x instead of 3x so that's what I'd normally do.
Some people would be happy with 40% in a day. Can't understand it myself....
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I'm needing to find a new broker because mine's making changes, badly, and I find I'm spending more time watching and managing the "savings" - which also involves learning.
Stock markets are at an all time high and will come down sometime.. People have been sayng similar things for "ages", so I'm not panicking, but currently my management of multiple accounts isn't as I want it - too remote, basically.
If I lose say 10% in a rush, I know it wouldn't make a difference really and I can earn it back, if things stay much as they are. You may not be so lucky, so be careful where you save things away.
The "same old" stock price leaders list is changing, so as I've commented before, there has to be some "rotation" to different sectors. AI development is only going one way, but how much and where that develops profits, is hard to tell.
Just two stocks will be markers of where the current trend goes - SMCI and NVIDIA. They're both around 1000 at the moment. Either or both could be 5000 by the end of the year, or not, we'll see.
So I'll move towards Swing Trading ( which means every few day or weeks), just dipping into the daily action when something crops up.
I quite fancy doing quant or algo trading, which is where you set up a computer to buy and sell automatically. It's going to be much more common. There's also copy trading, where someone else does the work, and your money follows his trades, and he gets a percentage.
Stock markets are at an all time high and will come down sometime.. People have been sayng similar things for "ages", so I'm not panicking, but currently my management of multiple accounts isn't as I want it - too remote, basically.
If I lose say 10% in a rush, I know it wouldn't make a difference really and I can earn it back, if things stay much as they are. You may not be so lucky, so be careful where you save things away.
The "same old" stock price leaders list is changing, so as I've commented before, there has to be some "rotation" to different sectors. AI development is only going one way, but how much and where that develops profits, is hard to tell.
Just two stocks will be markers of where the current trend goes - SMCI and NVIDIA. They're both around 1000 at the moment. Either or both could be 5000 by the end of the year, or not, we'll see.
So I'll move towards Swing Trading ( which means every few day or weeks), just dipping into the daily action when something crops up.
I quite fancy doing quant or algo trading, which is where you set up a computer to buy and sell automatically. It's going to be much more common. There's also copy trading, where someone else does the work, and your money follows his trades, and he gets a percentage.
Simple, it was a case of FINDING a TREND, looking for a POINT of ENTRY, and going WITH it. Once the trend no longer looked clear I got out. Does going with it not apply if it's against you after five minutes, or should you HODL?
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Welcome back!
Overriding "rule" - don't let any trade risk more than 1%, 5% or whatever, of your pot. £20k, means max 200 if you use 1%.
GTFO - get the funds out.
I know it's clear with hindsight, but I hope I would have been out of that trade where the (very short) line of the lower highs is broken:
You didn't have enough of a trend to follow it any distance at all. When a trend starts, it can end just as quickly. If it shows a sign it's over, get out! If you spot a trend and think it's been going a long time, the market will think the same and also decide, it's far enough! If there's no catalyst wait for a pullback and use tiny size. Treat it as fragile. Look at that trade - if you'd got out directly underneath the V of VWAP you would have taken as much as if you'd waited for the trend to break "ideally" where I indicated with hindsight.
That's what Catena does when he's trying to get to #1 on the floor. He scalps all the steps just one way, so if one goes wrong he's only lost a tiny bit. A lot of effort but that way wins most. He can do it on several names at once. I can't, that's for sure.
Ah well, under the bridge.
Here's one to watch, c/o Brian Shannon of Alphatrends
NCNO
If it breaks that resistance at 35.40, it should jump upwards.
Stop would go under the most recent low.
TP would probably be by eyeball but near one of the levels from the left side of the chart, watch the volumes. Those will be expected so be ready to reenter for a quick in out.
If it drops down then the setup isn't valid so forget it, don't enter.
I've paused trading mostly, been looking after the lumps I've put away. They're all stockmarket related so a drop of, y'know, a third, is possible. There's some in Japan, some in India, but they're all related. There are some big U.S. numbers out tomorrow so that could be a catalyst for a collapse. The yanks are all a bit shocked by the thought that their interest rates might NOT come down soon, as just indicated by Powell. If Europe's do and theirs don't, Their currency will go too strong and they won't be able to export. Panic.
Also, Crypto has more or less stopped its run, fuels aren't doing very much, chips have got to the top, so there's not much running several percent a day, which is what I find easier. GE in the US and RHM in Germany have been very holdable/ swingable, and RR until recently.
I'll soon have a shiny new S&S ISA's worth, but at the moment I don't know what I'd use it for.
If things are going OK then maybe QQQ5 or S&P500x3. Spreads are a bit wide but you can day trade them.
Gold/silver could finally have a bit of a run. I put some in Blackrock Gold & general a couple of weeks ago. It's up a bit, but Managed Funds aren't quick to deal with, so you miss.
DId you watch TTV today - I sort of did. They had a messy time.
I checked your msft trade.
Did you have a stop-loss? Try to have a SL whenever you plan a trade. You MUST plan the trade. I think you go on hunches too much and then hope. If you were using the crossings of MA's, you entered rather early and were lucky,and you shold have got out when it crossed again - you'd have been up, thought not much.
Maybe you'd be better off sticking to more obvious trades. AND always use a SL. A TP is a good idea too, they're so quick, even if it only takes a portion out. You know this!
I only looked at GOOGL because it was SC's main preference. The levels were there from APril 2, and there was a catalyst.
I find I'm often looking at the tops of the wicks for a reversal.. If you get 2-3 the same, it's a strong hint. That and levels.
SC thought the goog would rise (catalyst) then drop to around 154 then bounce.
It was rising premarket so I went long, though a bit late.
The reversals were mostly at matching wick peaks, or the levels. There's a level at the top of the letters GOOGL The red circled ones I got wrong, and got back in later. At the second major peak (the highest one) it was going flatter so I expected it to go down to the major level, and it did. I nearly got out at that first reversal going down, but it matched the rising one so I stayed with it. Again it forecast its turn. I nearly got out at about 16:00, or I may have done, can't remember. It added up to about 5% but I wasn't that confident so had less on, but it was ok considering I was doing something else at the time.
I dunno how obvious you find that.
What I would suggest, is RANGE trading, ie where something just goes between level and back, or within a channel. You have to WAIT until you see one. So you might not trade for a few HOURS, but that's better than making losing trades.
Similar is DIP trading, where there's a solid level you know it's likely to move away from and come back to. Planning the exit is important.
You need a plan like you will enter when it does X, with a stop at Y and an exit at Z. If it does P then you'll alter to do Q. If it starts to go outside your plan, close.
It's pops (up) or dips. Usually it's safer to go towards the level, but SC always shorts.
So have a number of stocks up or cycle round, and I'd say have TTV on. They have a new channel, "more tradertv live" so you can have a phone sideways and watch what the 2 main guys are doing. Adara often trades ranges. There's also a vertical format - confusing.
Let's have a look...
Parts of Coin, Pfizer, Gme, Docu, Twist (often good) would have worked. Haven't found a real classic but SC did. Tesla had strong levels you could work off.
For slightly longer term look at ANET and HALliburton on eg a 15min chart. They're both very swingable. They both seem to be on a rise. HAL looks good for swinging on almost any timescale. Look at 30min. You buy when it goes properly green and sell when it's a red, simples!
Can you use Trailing stops??
Also look at cocoa (and the 3x ETF if you have it) and maybe coffee. Chocolate is bonkers, 450% in 3 months.
SC is good, he usually comes at the top of the pile, but he's a BSer. The other day he went backwards $3, then forwards $10. Only mentioned the one while he was crowing, of course. They must earn from the youtube because it's educational, but it's all about getting traders in there really, hence the other streams. They're very lucky to have Adara. Note she's still on the simulator after 6 months, only winning inconsistently. She does the morning reports - the ones they email out.
Oh, T212 has a new TV front end. No good yet for day trading, too slow.
Sorry that was a bit long.
Overriding "rule" - don't let any trade risk more than 1%, 5% or whatever, of your pot. £20k, means max 200 if you use 1%.
GTFO - get the funds out.
I know it's clear with hindsight, but I hope I would have been out of that trade where the (very short) line of the lower highs is broken:
You didn't have enough of a trend to follow it any distance at all. When a trend starts, it can end just as quickly. If it shows a sign it's over, get out! If you spot a trend and think it's been going a long time, the market will think the same and also decide, it's far enough! If there's no catalyst wait for a pullback and use tiny size. Treat it as fragile. Look at that trade - if you'd got out directly underneath the V of VWAP you would have taken as much as if you'd waited for the trend to break "ideally" where I indicated with hindsight.
That's what Catena does when he's trying to get to #1 on the floor. He scalps all the steps just one way, so if one goes wrong he's only lost a tiny bit. A lot of effort but that way wins most. He can do it on several names at once. I can't, that's for sure.
Ah well, under the bridge.
Here's one to watch, c/o Brian Shannon of Alphatrends
NCNO
If it breaks that resistance at 35.40, it should jump upwards.
Stop would go under the most recent low.
TP would probably be by eyeball but near one of the levels from the left side of the chart, watch the volumes. Those will be expected so be ready to reenter for a quick in out.
If it drops down then the setup isn't valid so forget it, don't enter.
I've paused trading mostly, been looking after the lumps I've put away. They're all stockmarket related so a drop of, y'know, a third, is possible. There's some in Japan, some in India, but they're all related. There are some big U.S. numbers out tomorrow so that could be a catalyst for a collapse. The yanks are all a bit shocked by the thought that their interest rates might NOT come down soon, as just indicated by Powell. If Europe's do and theirs don't, Their currency will go too strong and they won't be able to export. Panic.
Also, Crypto has more or less stopped its run, fuels aren't doing very much, chips have got to the top, so there's not much running several percent a day, which is what I find easier. GE in the US and RHM in Germany have been very holdable/ swingable, and RR until recently.
I'll soon have a shiny new S&S ISA's worth, but at the moment I don't know what I'd use it for.
If things are going OK then maybe QQQ5 or S&P500x3. Spreads are a bit wide but you can day trade them.
Gold/silver could finally have a bit of a run. I put some in Blackrock Gold & general a couple of weeks ago. It's up a bit, but Managed Funds aren't quick to deal with, so you miss.
DId you watch TTV today - I sort of did. They had a messy time.
I checked your msft trade.
Did you have a stop-loss? Try to have a SL whenever you plan a trade. You MUST plan the trade. I think you go on hunches too much and then hope. If you were using the crossings of MA's, you entered rather early and were lucky,and you shold have got out when it crossed again - you'd have been up, thought not much.
Maybe you'd be better off sticking to more obvious trades. AND always use a SL. A TP is a good idea too, they're so quick, even if it only takes a portion out. You know this!
I only looked at GOOGL because it was SC's main preference. The levels were there from APril 2, and there was a catalyst.
I find I'm often looking at the tops of the wicks for a reversal.. If you get 2-3 the same, it's a strong hint. That and levels.
SC thought the goog would rise (catalyst) then drop to around 154 then bounce.
It was rising premarket so I went long, though a bit late.
The reversals were mostly at matching wick peaks, or the levels. There's a level at the top of the letters GOOGL The red circled ones I got wrong, and got back in later. At the second major peak (the highest one) it was going flatter so I expected it to go down to the major level, and it did. I nearly got out at that first reversal going down, but it matched the rising one so I stayed with it. Again it forecast its turn. I nearly got out at about 16:00, or I may have done, can't remember. It added up to about 5% but I wasn't that confident so had less on, but it was ok considering I was doing something else at the time.
I dunno how obvious you find that.
What I would suggest, is RANGE trading, ie where something just goes between level and back, or within a channel. You have to WAIT until you see one. So you might not trade for a few HOURS, but that's better than making losing trades.
Similar is DIP trading, where there's a solid level you know it's likely to move away from and come back to. Planning the exit is important.
You need a plan like you will enter when it does X, with a stop at Y and an exit at Z. If it does P then you'll alter to do Q. If it starts to go outside your plan, close.
It's pops (up) or dips. Usually it's safer to go towards the level, but SC always shorts.
So have a number of stocks up or cycle round, and I'd say have TTV on. They have a new channel, "more tradertv live" so you can have a phone sideways and watch what the 2 main guys are doing. Adara often trades ranges. There's also a vertical format - confusing.
Let's have a look...
Parts of Coin, Pfizer, Gme, Docu, Twist (often good) would have worked. Haven't found a real classic but SC did. Tesla had strong levels you could work off.
For slightly longer term look at ANET and HALliburton on eg a 15min chart. They're both very swingable. They both seem to be on a rise. HAL looks good for swinging on almost any timescale. Look at 30min. You buy when it goes properly green and sell when it's a red, simples!
Can you use Trailing stops??
Also look at cocoa (and the 3x ETF if you have it) and maybe coffee. Chocolate is bonkers, 450% in 3 months.
SC is good, he usually comes at the top of the pile, but he's a BSer. The other day he went backwards $3, then forwards $10. Only mentioned the one while he was crowing, of course. They must earn from the youtube because it's educational, but it's all about getting traders in there really, hence the other streams. They're very lucky to have Adara. Note she's still on the simulator after 6 months, only winning inconsistently. She does the morning reports - the ones they email out.
Oh, T212 has a new TV front end. No good yet for day trading, too slow.
Sorry that was a bit long.
Thanks very much. I didn't watch TTV yesterday, and no, I didn't have a stoploss on the Microsoft trade yesterday, and I didn't really follow it because I had other things to focus on. I'll try to pay more attention today. I don't see where you get your level above the GOOGLE letters from, unless you're inferring it after it reversed from there at 17:30.
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