Stubborn ancient bib tap

[JohnW2]

Hi there. I'm trying to get to grips with a largish late Victorian house I have inherited, which has been largely 'neglected' for decades (essentially since WWII - hence about 80 years!). There is very little plumbing. What there is (including wastes etc.) is primarily lead, with some ';iron' and literally just a few inches of copper here and there.

The entire plumbing (and heating!) system obviously will need to be re-done from scratch, and I will address that in due course. In the meantime (whilst I am 'saving up' to do the proper work!), I wanted to do one temporary thing. In a 'scullery' beyond the kitchen (close to the rear door of the house) there is a hand wash basin with a functioning water supply (the room is supplied in lead, changing to 'iron' at a stopcock beneath the basin.

Below the sink, downstream of the stopcock, there is something which I think probably qualifies as a bib tap, attached to an 'iron' Tee. For a start it's dripping a bit, and I'm not confident that it would/will be easy to get it apart to replace its washer. However, I haven't even tried that yet, since I would really like to change it (as a temporary measure) to a modern hose-union bib tap, since it's proximity to the back door would make that useful.

Below is a photo of the tap, which I have cleaned up a bit in an attempt to see what I'm dealing with. I personally can't be sure whether the tap has a male or female thread but I had assumed that, either way, rotating the tap anti-clockwise (as I look at it) would get it off. However, so far no amount of brute force has succeeded in achieving anything at all, and I'm a little reluctant to get too violent with it!

If other joints in the plumbing system are anything to go by, they seem to be 'sealed' with something like putty (and what I imagine is probably 'horse hair') which has set to have the characteristics of concrete!

So, my questions ...

1... Am I right in assuming that the tap should ('simply'!) 'screw off'?
2... Assuming that it should screw off, any hints?
. 2a ... I somehow doubt that 'penetrating oil' would be able to 'penetrate' whatever is doing the sealing.
. 2b ... If I attempt 'increasing violence' (e..g. with even long extensions to the spanner) is anything catastrophic likely to happen?
. 2c ... Might it be helpful (and 'safe') to take a blowlamp gto the Tee, in the hope that a bit of expansion might loosen it?
3... If I somehow manage to get the tap off, how likely is it that the thread in the Tee will be appriate for 'screwing in' a modern bib tap?
4... Any other thoughts, comments or ideas?

Thanks for any thoughts/advice!

Kindest Regards, John

 

[Exedon]

Yes it will screw out
May find some heat usefully
Looks to be standard !/2 in bib tap
Modern equivalent will screw strait back in.

 

[cross thread]

The thread will be standard 1/2 inch bsp same as new one,s,try unscrewing but support the tees you don’t pull the other joints , heat will help

 

[JohnW2]

Yes it will screw out
May find some heat usefully
Looks to be standard !/2 in bib tap
Modern equivalent will screw strait back in.

Thanks for your rapid response. That all sounds encouraging. It will be a week or two before I'm next at the property, but I will probably report back of what I achieve (or don't!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

The thread will be standard 1/2 inch bsp same as new one,s,try unscrewing but support the tees you don’t pull the other joints , heat will help

Thanks. Again, that sounds encouraging - so 'brute force (with support), and probably some heat, it is!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Deleted member 267285]

If you replace it for a modern bib tap for use with a hose in the garden, then it’ll need to conform with water regulations, so an isolation valve and double check valve. If you’re just filling buckets then as long as you can maintain an air gap, should be satisfactory. Regards undoing it, use a decent spanner, grips or footprint wrench.

 

[JohnW2]

If you replace it for a modern bib tap for use with a hose in the garden, then it’ll need to conform with water regulations, so an isolation valve and double check valve. If you’re just filling buckets then as long as you can maintain an air gap, should be satisfactory.

Yes, I know all that, but, for my very temporary requirement ....

In any event, as I said, the tap is fed via a stopcock, and I presume that counts as an 'isolator', even though it 'isolates' the basin tap as well as the bib tap ... and since the tap is indoors, presumably the regulation requiring an indoor check valve would be satisfied by using a bib tap which incorporated one?

Regards undoing it, use a decent spanner, grips or footprint wrench.

The spanners I've tried so far have, at least to my mind, been 'decent' enough, and I've tried with an ~18" steel tube over it. Needless to say, access is not ideal, and anything longer than about 18" would probably be problematical - but we'll see. I suspect (hope!) that heat might be the answer.

Kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

If you can turn the supply off first, you can try various methods, such as heat, de-rust/penetrating oil, longer tube on spanner etc.
Then if anything breaks/snaps you don't have to worry about causing a flood.

 

[Elkato531]

Probably sealed with hemp and paste which has set like concrete. It will go if you get enough leverage. I would put a decent stilson wrench on the tap body. That vertical pipe isn't going anywhere so have your weetabix first and go for it

 

[Deleted member 267285]

In any event, as I said, the tap is fed via a stopcock, and I presume that counts as an 'isolator', even though it 'isolates' the basin tap as well as the bib tap ... and since the tap is indoors, presumably the regulation requiring an indoor check valve would be satisfied by using a bib tap which incorporated one?

Nope, regulations state its own isolation valve and any check valve should be fitted inside where practicable. A tap which incorporates a check valve is only allowed to be fitted: If it is a direct replacement of an existing tap where a check valve can not be fitted on the supply pipework iirc. What you are doing (temporary or not) could be seen to contravene the regulations - obviously, only if someone from your water authority sees it or there’s a backflow into the supply.

Yes, looking like heat might be your answer.

 

[JohnW2]

If you can turn the supply off first ....

Needless to say, I'm doing that

, you can try various methods, such as heat, de-rust/penetrating oil

I'm certainly going to try heat but, as I said, I seriously doubt that penetrating oil will 'penetrate' the 'concrete' I am dealing with!

, longer tube on spanner etc.

As I said, there is a practical/access issue with a pipe longer than about 18" - there is a wall very close on one side of the tap and the basin (with it's pipework and waste) very close on the other side. However, I'll see if anything longer will fit, but am putting my greatest hope in heat.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Probably sealed with hemp and paste which has set like concrete.

Indeed so.

It will go if you get enough leverage. I would put a decent stilson wrench on the tap body.

I'm not sure that would help, the hex bit of the tap is intact, and I'm getting a very good 'connection' betqeen it and the spanner.

That vertical pipe isn't going anywhere so have your weetabix first and go for it

That was my thinking - but I'm probably going to try a bit of heat as well as the Weetabix!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Nope, regulations state its own isolation valve ...

Well, if I may say so, that's a daft regulation. Isolation is isolation, even if additional things also get isolated. Indeed, since I don't need the tap in the basin, if I disconnected it then the 'isolator' would only be isolating the tap in question - but I wouldn't do that, even for a 'Jobsworth'!

and any check valve should be fitted inside where practicable.

I though that the regulation only required that the check valve be 'fitted inside where practical', not also that it had to be separate from the tap? As I said, the tap IS inside.

What you are doing (temporary or not) could be seen to contravene the regulations - obviously, only if someone from your water authority sees it or there’s a backflow into the supply. ...

As I said, I understand that (although, as above, could try to argue that it wouldn't actually contravene the regulations) but, as I also said "but..... " !

, looking like heat might be your answer.

That is certainly my hope.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Wd40 if its having a hard time to get out.

I can (and will) certainly try - although, as I've said, I'm a bit sceptical.

That tap looks like its been painted dozen of times

I got that 'gleaming brass' very easily with just some 'brass cleaner' and gentle use of some wire wool - I see/saw no signs of any paint on the tap. The pipe and fittings have, of course, had dozens of coats of paint over the decades.

Kind Regards, John

 

[denso13]

I though that the regulation only required that the check valve be 'fitted inside where practical', not also that it had to be separate from the tap? As I said, the tap IS inside.

A tap incorporating a check valve is ok in your situation, you are replacing an existing tap.