Terraced house alarm system

[streaker99]

I think the obvious solution here is dont choose wireless if you live near a radio Ham.

On another note regarding wireless.

I had preprogrammed a wireless transmitter to install and when I had the control panel in my hand my car remote would not operate the central locking. When the control panel was moved about three metres away then the central locking worked fine again.

The point being as with wifi routers etc they have to be very close to the control panel ie less than a metre before they cause problems , although in this case it was not the control panel compromised by the central locking but vica verca.

WIFI is very low level RF, ANY receiver can fall foul of front end overload.

Hence why simply moving the transmitter/recievers apart a few feet solves the problem.

 

[bernardgreen]

Spurious emmissions from non wireless equipment have to be considered as well. The spurious emmissions from the square edged chopping of the mains voltage in a cheap ( un-suppressed ) dimmer can block a nearby receiver.

The digital signals in poorly designed electronic equipment can create significant spurious emmissions.

So many things to consider when making a risk analysis prior to choosing from wired or wireless and if wireless is chosen which type of wireless protocol to use.

 

[bernardgreen]

Hence why simply moving the transmitter/recievers apart a few feet solves the problem.

I assume you mean moving the alarm receiver a few feet further away from the source of the blocking signal. In many cases that is likely to stop the alarm system receiver being blocked by that source of interference. But it is by no means certain to cure the problem in the long term. It may only mean that the blocking signal is reduce to a level that the signals from alarm transmitters can punch through at the time you are testing it. If something later increases signal loss between sensor and panel then that sensor's signal may no longer be strong enough to punch through the interference. That sensor is then flagged as missing or dead.

 

[streaker99]

Hence why simply moving the transmitter/recievers apart a few feet solves the problem.

I assume you mean moving the alarm receiver a few feet further away from the source of the blocking signal. In many cases that is likely to stop the alarm system receiver being blocked by that source of interference. But it is by no means certain to cure the problem in the long term. It may only mean that the blocking signal is reduce to a level that the signals from alarm transmitters can punch through at the time you are testing it. If something later increases signal loss between sensor and panel then that sensor's signal may no longer be strong enough to punch through the interference. That sensor is then flagged as missing or dead.

Indeed it would show as a fault on the panel.
I personally have only had one single report of that particular event occuring.
I suspected the problem was work being done on a roof opposite where contractors were using a mains powered electric drill that probably had worn bushes. I saw it in operation and it was noisy and I could see it flashing.
The problem went when the contractors left.

 

[peaps2]

In the case of the Yale siren if it detects a frequency that is transmitting on its own frequency within set parameters of duration and frequency the siren will activate assuming the system is being deliberately jammed.
If you alter one of the dip switches in the siren the under the same circumstances the siren will NOT activate because you have set the siren to IGNORE the inteference as per definition 2.

oh my lord English lessons to adults...

Utter rubbish, you can't ignore interference.

 

[peaps2]

In some areas, mainly where people have been flooded by low end alarms sales, I can drive up the road transmitting and the area comes alive. House alarms and car alarms alike.

It's ok to say move this or that but if a person wants to attack these budget systems it's very easy to do. You could drive people mad setting off their system and what do they end up doing? Yes switching the thing off, after-all it didn't cost that much

 

[bernardgreen]

and what do they end up doing? Yes switching the thing off, after-all it didn't cost that much

Or they select " "Ignore" interference"" mode. That ends the false alarms that were occuring when the siren had detected jamming / blocking and now the user assumes all is OK with their system. It isn't because while the receiver in the siren / panel is blocked by spurious signal, accidental or intentional, it cannot be told by any sensor that an intruder has been detected and therefore that intruder does not cause an alarm.

The first indication of anything amiss is when the siren or panel realises that some or all of the sensors appear to have stopped sending the regular " I am here " messages. If the time out period for silence from a sensor is 15 minutes before they are considered to be missing then the intruder could have that 15 minutes before an alarm sounds.

 

[streaker99]

In some areas, mainly where people have been flooded by low end alarms sales, I can drive up the road transmitting and the area comes alive. House alarms and car alarms alike.

It's ok to say move this or that but if a person wants to attack these budget systems it's very easy to do. You could drive people mad setting off their system and what do they end up doing? Yes switching the thing off, after-all it didn't cost that much

 

[streaker99]

and what do they end up doing? Yes switching the thing off, after-all it didn't cost that much

Or they select " "Ignore" interference"" mode. That ends the false alarms that were occuring when the siren had detected jamming / blocking and now the user assumes all is OK with their system. It isn't because while the receiver in the siren / panel is blocked by spurious signal, accidental or intentional, it cannot be told by any sensor that an intruder has been detected and therefore that intruder does not cause an alarm.

The first indication of anything amiss is when the siren or panel realises that some or all of the sensors appear to have stopped sending the regular " I am here " messages. If the time out period for silence from a sensor is 15 minutes before they are considered to be missing then the intruder could have that 15 minutes before an alarm sounds.

do you know what the time out period is? Why come up with 15 minutes off the top of your head , oh I know because that just aids your SCAREMONGERING.

Why don't you use the ACTUAL polling timescale? Its a matter of seconds...

 

[Workers]

I`m glad at least two people UNDERSTAND wireless systems a bit more than someone who says they are actually fitting and understand them them.

English lessons?
As in switching off the jamming detection. What utter tosh is that?
What would you do if your door was "sticky" just pull it shut and not lock it?
Turning off any protective device to a system only makes it more vulnerable to being overcome.

I am willing to bet an old trick with a mobile phone would fool this system and make it lock out if it was in fact fitted in accordance with noise abatement rules and render it useless within 5 minutes.

Quoting from a book and actually understanding the technology are a million miles apart and in this case it has been shown that three of us posting here do understand the technology, one who does not is the one trying to validate his stance with insults and "quotes".

PS a motor with worn brushes on another supply across the road would not cause the effect you suspect. Not unless it was a 10kw one rather than a 500w one.

 

[bernardgreen]

do you know what the time out period is?

No I do not know what the time out period is. Do you ? If you do please tell me.

Why come up with 15 minutes off the top of your head , oh I know because that just aids your SCAREMONGERING. Why don't you use the ACTUAL polling timescale?

I seem to recall, maybe erroniously, that that figure was mentioned in the past. I would be pleased to know the correct time out periods.

Its a matter of seconds...

Which implies that each sensor has to send a transmission several times a minute at all times. Is that the case ? What happens when the sensor "goes to sleep" after detecting motion, how long is the sleep period and does that alter the time out period in the panel for that sensor alone or is the time out fo other sensors also affected ?

Polling ( ask and response ) is not possible on a one way communication channel.

 

[peaps2]

One day he might even understand AGC circuits and the importance of having a good quality filter system that are not part of a budget system..

I don't fit alarms either!!!

 

[streaker99]

oh yey and some just posted a spurious 15 minute time out without actually knowing it was practically realtime..

Who cares - if you decide wireless is not the way to go then stick to wired and get left behind.

Its only the same tech as car remote controls , When was the last time you saw someone use a key?

Luddite.

 

[streaker99]

Modern homes are being built without prewiring for a wired system.

Mrs Newhouse doesn't want holes in her brand new walls and they cant go under the concrete floor with a laminate on top.

So mrs newhome chooses wireless , which is fine because in a modern home with stooth walling the signals have absolutely no problems whatsoever and the systems work fine.

A wired system could fail to warn if the piezo fails
A wired system could fail to work if the reed sticks
etc etc

Whats everyone's point?
Do you actually know yourselves?

Do you fit wireless if requested mr Workshy?

Do you say 'Yes it's very reliable now' as you stuff the money in your pocket or do you tell them that there is (according to you scaremongers) every possibility it will not work?

So what is it?

 

[Workers]

If it is real time, why can a system be set with a door open?
Why does it not report it is open?

Something/Someone is not correct here and the evidence points to `99.
Turning around and saying "who cares" and then calling another a "Luddite" just proves you have no real knowledge of what you insist you sell and or fit.

Do you actually charge people for this? If so I would think you either need some education or being reported to a trade body or trade standards for falsely taking monies.