the dole queue beckons again... :(

[RedHerring2]

I pointed out that I have A level Engineering Drawing.! then he points out " Oh, but that was over 30 odd years ago."

It is an interesting concept, though.
We used to talk about qualifications having a "half-life" as in radiation. We used it to illustrate the point that within a certain timeframe, half of what you had learned would be out-of-date.

It might seem frivilous, until you apply it to different subjects. e.g. An IT qualification could have a "half-life" of something like 12 months whereas a History qualification would be self-renewing. Geology qualifications also could have a "half-life" of millions of years, whereas an engineering qualification's "half-life" could be measued in years or decades.

Granted, any self-respecting practising (or teaching, 'cos there is no real difference....ooops opened another can of worms ) professional would keep their education up-to-date.

 

[joinerjohn]

Interesting concept Red H, Taken to it's extreme though, we should all be retiring around the age of 40 then as our half life has gone.
I like your thoughts on the IT half life, but would probably put it's half life at around 6 months these days.
One thing I was offering at the interview though, is life experience. I'm in my mid fifties now and still feel I have a lot to offer a prospective employer. Not just my joinery skills, but actual experience of life and work. The Dole office ask, how can I transfer skills I have to other industries/work etc and believe me , being a joiner, it's hard to think how skill at cutting timber,hanging doors, putting window frames in, making joints etc can transfer to other industries. I suppose the ability to work accurately is an asset, but far too many employers these days, would rather set a 20 - 30yr old on than someone in their middle fifties.
Students these days are up in arms about having to pay for their university education,,, If only they realised that 30+ yrs down the line, their education will count for diddly squat in the real world of employment, they'd probably think about forgetting uni and get straight into employment.

 

[Spark123]

If you can put up with working away, this outfit were recruiting a few weeks ago

PPS Electrical
Sellafield, Seascale, Cumbria, CA20 1PG
01946 721599

Think PPS (Process Pipework Services) are under the umbrella of Shepley Enginnering who are recruiting electricians. Might also be worth applying for Dalkia or Sellafield Ltd (general application) if you are interested in a move up north.

 

[RedHerring2]

Interesting concept Red H, Taken to it's extreme though, we should all be retiring around the age of 40 then as our half life has gone.

If you keep up your professional knowledge, as IT workers must do in order to be able to do a reasonable standard of work, then you don't become out-of-date.

One thing I was offering at the interview though, is life experience.

Way to go! What us older workers have/had is the work ethic and the satisfaction of good workmanship. We grew up in a world when our own standards were the only 'level of quality' to be achieved. We didn't have any targets, inspections or quality control. We were it!

I'm in my mid fifties now and still feel I have a lot to offer a prospective employer. Not just my joinery skills, but actual experience of life and work. The Dole office ask, how can I transfer skills I have to other industries/work etc and believe me , being a joiner, it's hard to think how skill at cutting timber,hanging doors, putting window frames in, making joints etc can transfer to other industries. I suppose the ability to work accurately is an asset,

As is the ability to arrive at work in all weather, on time, regularly and reliably. So too is the ability to oversee apprentices, etc, and to be responsible for their safety, work and development.
I was called something like ' a rogue' when I turned the old adage of 'married men are more reliable' on it's head. My colleagues couldn't see why I was arguing that they'd mixed up cause and effect. In my view, the more reliable men were more likely to be married. But being married doesn't make you more reliable.

....but far too many employers these days, would rather set a 20 - 30yr old on than someone in their middle fifties.

They still need us old'uns to set the standards and see the more distant direction and strategies. I remember someone asking "what good are records and data?". I told 'em "If you don't know where you've been, you don't know where you are now and you don't know where you're going, or how to get there, or indeed, if you'll ever arrive, or even know when you have arrived where you were heading for."

Students these days are up in arms about having to pay for their university education,,, If only they realised that 30+ yrs down the line, their education will count for diddly squat in the real world of employment, they'd probably think about forgetting uni and get straight into employment.

One of the more important skills in life, IMO, is to 'learn how learn'. You can teach young 'uns, but you can't make 'em learn.
Often they think that when their education is finished they've nothing more to learn.

 

[conny]

When you are thinking about how to transfer your 'skills' don't just think about your 'professional' ones. Consider how you deal with people when working in their homes, the 'skills' you use in any hobbies, your ability to use a PC. Is your garage tidy? Then you probably have good organisational skills. Do you keep all receipts/bills neatly in files? Then consider your administration skills.
At our age, (late 40's to mid/late 50's), we have more skills than we realise. We just have to realise what they are and convince others what we are capable of offering them. Never undersell yourself, but never lie about something you can't do.

 

[Karinska]

Good answer conny

 

[joinerjohn]

When you are thinking about how to transfer your 'skills' don't just think about your 'professional' ones. Consider how you deal with people when working in their homes, the 'skills' you use in any hobbies, your ability to use a PC. Is your garage tidy? Then you probably have good organisational skills. Do you keep all receipts/bills neatly in files? Then consider your administration skills.
At our age, (late 40's to mid/late 50's), we have more skills than we realise. We just have to realise what they are and convince others what we are capable of offering them. Never undersell yourself, but never lie about something you can't do.

Trouble is though Conny, I have what I consider to be , good management skills. Last job, I was in charge of hiring and firing sub contractors and agency staff. With almost free reign over who did what and responsibility for large rollouts of display units (we built displays for B&Poo, Debenhams and others. I even helped with a shopfit at Harrods). Yet I don't have a management qualification. I applied for a management job with a joinery company and was told I was underqualified simply because of my lack of qualifications at management level.
I don't know what qualifications foremen etc in the construction industry years ago had, apart from experience.
I used to be captain of our local darts team, I have been a senior shop steward, worked for the local council (so know how to deal with the general public etc)

Seems to me , unless you have some piece of paper that says you can do these things (as a qualification), then employers just are not interested.
I can see unemployment in this country increasing this year to even higher levels, which to me means even more competitions for the few jobs that are available. Not a bright outlook.

 

[libby lou lou]

My daughter works for nothing, (23ys old),she' s doing her LPC, not getting paid, and it's Illegal, she can't tell the social, as they will insist,she must be paid after x amount of time.

And being taught how to avoid the systyem?.She will be a solicitor in 2.

She (Hate that word) is learning the hard way, maybe,but, my eyes have been opened, from what iv'e learned.

Would love to say more, but, got to look after her .

 

[conny]

John, I understand exactly where you are coming from. My previous manager worked his way up from the shop floor/apprenticeship/supervisor/foreman/lower manager/senior manager.
just before he retired, well about 12 months actually, we were discussing his successor. In his view the in-coming bloke won't cut it, he has the paperwork but not the experience as he's about 34. If my old manager had his way he would have taken a tradesman who had worked through the system as he did. Sadly his words seem to becoming true as this new fella is more concerned with sending people on courses from how to lift a cardboard box to how to tie your flamin' boot laces!

 

[wreckedit]

Sadly his words seem to becoming true as this new fella is more concerned with sending people on courses from how to lift a cardboard box to how to tie your flamin' boot laces!

Where safety is concerned its always best to cover your own backside.
I do feel that when he's covered the managements and his because they will always look down to cover theirs.
So, given time I'm sure he'll do just fine.

 

[RedHerring2]

Seems to me , unless you have some piece of paper that says you can do these things (as a qualification), then employers just are not interested.

As a manager, when I was working, I didn't necessarily see a qualification as proof that someone was adept at that intended job. But it was proof that the candidate had the disciplined approach necessary to attain a qualification.
Therefore, probably still retained some of the determined approach to receive further training, depending on how long ago they had last attained some qualification.

I'm sure I wasn't alone in that train of thought.

There are some qualifications that are quick and easy to attain, such as First Aid or First Aid at Work. These type of qualifications are still important in industry and demonstrates to a future employer your willingness to undertake such training and duties.

As Conny and Joinerjohn suggested, candidates social/pastime/recreational activities can be excellent indicators of a possible future employees potential, such as amateur Drama, group activities or organisation or even leadership.

Maybe we have to be careful not to project any negative connotations though.
Perhaps some may perceive darts as spending a lot of time in the pub, (and nowt wrong with that). Shop stewardship as possibly militant.
It may be important to discuss these type of activities in more detail with prospective employers to reassure them or to reinforce the postive aspects of such activities.

 

[Mickymoody]

There seems a trend for unemployed people to post, the lack of jobs, and the people in jobs, fearing for their jobs, than a few months ago? When people in work, are now losing their jobs..so eventually realise the destination. Before it was, you are unemployed, you are a scum waster, drain on my taxes, now it is How do I prevent this? I'm in this, but have cash stashed away, so I'm fine, Argh...the cash ran out..

 

[RedHerring2]

There seems a trend for unemployed people to post, the lack of jobs, and the people in jobs, fearing for their jobs, than a few months ago? When people in work, are now losing their jobs..so eventually realise the destination. Before it was, you are unemployed, you are a scum waster, drain on my taxes, now it is How do I prevent this? I'm in this, but have cash stashed away, so I'm fine, Argh...the cash ran out..

I don't think one or two extra posts on a subject indicates a trend.

I also think there's a world of difference between:
"I'm out of work, and have been for a long time because they can't find me a job that pays more than my dole money" mentality, and
"I've recently lost my job and I'm struggling to find another, but I'm willing to keep trying. Does anyone have any suggestions?" attitude.


"He that knows not,
and knows not that he knows not
is a fool.
Shun him

He that knows not,
and knows that he knows not
is a pupil.
Teach him.

He that knows,
and knows not that he knows
is asleep
Wake him.

He that knows,
and knows that he knows
is a teacher.
Follow him."

(Arabic Proverb)


"We know what we know, we know that there are things we do not know, and we know that there are things we don't know we don't know"
Donald Rumsfeld (4 Sept 2002) (Woodward, 2004: 171)
It is ironic, perhaps, that the initial insight is allegedly Arabic.

http://www.doceo.co.uk/tools/knowing.htm

The whole article is worth a read.

 

[libby lou lou]

There seems a trend for unemployed people to post, the lack of jobs, and the people in jobs, fearing for their jobs, than a few months ago? When people in work, are now losing their jobs..so eventually realise the destination. Before it was, you are unemployed, you are a scum waster, drain on my taxes, now it is How do I prevent this? I'm in this, but have cash stashed away, so I'm fine, Argh...the cash ran out..

Same situation mm, don't take them on, some people have NEVER seen hardship, (hopefully they will), things WILL get worse, we are used to it, some ain't., june/ july. **** time about then, (imo)

Im'e used to having nothing,my life is easyier

 

[libby lou lou]

It's the only way to your attention, mr, i'm alright jack.