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OOPPS, Posted this twice by mistake
The Theory of Everything
- Thread starter Hysteresis
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Dexy, as you well know the approach for getting the truth is to question your present understanding. Anything that does not quite fit the present understanding is questioned and discussed rationally. Even in Science that means Cherry Picking the apparent anomalies and discussing them and if it proves to be wrong then change your thinking or try alternatives that do fit observation.
If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will find that I made no references what so ever to religion, I in fact Cherry Picked the Idea of an expanding Universe and questioned whether that was correct and posed the question that maybe the Universe was pulsating. The religious content was introduced by others. AS you well know, if something does not fit observation, something is wrong so the search for the solution that will satisfy observation commences.
Is that a criticism of Science, of course it isn't. It is how Science works. Similarly if one questions a biblical story, it is not criticism of the book but questioning the authenticity of the writing.
When Blind Faith in religion is questioned by highlighting anomalies, then the Believers immediately get aggressive in the defence of their belief. We see it all of the time in ALL religions. Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu, Etc. all defend their belief with Aggression because rational discussion is not an option. Islamic Extremism being it's present manifestation. If you don't believe what we believe, we will kill you.
This aggression manifests itself in varying degrees from physical to mental to personal attacks on one's intelligence. Norcon is a typical proponent of this aggression. If you can't present a rational argument in defence of the question, then turn to aggression.
This demonstration of irrational thought with aggressive response drives my thoughts towards Atheism.
Any structure be it religious doctrine or building a tower, must be based on solid foundations and structure. IF one Cherry Picks the questionable part of the Structure and as such prevent it falling down by fixing the defect then a stable structure is the result. If one ignores the defective component and shoots the messenger who identifies it then of course the structure will eventually collapse.
I have no issue what so ever with religious people ,it is their prerogative to believe what they want even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it is still their right to believe it. What does bother me is the aggressive way these people defend their beliefs which ranges from petty name calling as in Norcons case to downright evil actions such as that carried out by Islamic extremists.
Discuss the questions with rationality and intelligent conversation which should convince the questioner that they are mislead is the way to advancing your beliefs or understanding of the Universe. That in itself is the basis of religion. The ancient civilisation questioned why crops failed and someone came up with the idea it was the Rain God who was angry or some such nonsense. People believed it because thy could not rationally discuss the alternatives until some one questioned the idea of the Rain God, then the Rain God Priests got aggressive to the questioners as the priests position in society was under threat. Of course this is an over simplistic construction of what really happened but you will get the idea.
So in my defence of the aggression toward me from the God Botherers. my original posting was questioning scientific thinking and it was God Botherers that hijacked the discussion by aggressively promoting their creationism. As I questioned Science, I then also question Creationism in an attempt to get closer to the Truth. I certainly do not aggressively promote Scientific Thinking, I tend towards it as, on the balance of the evidence, it appears to me to be more likely to be nearer the truth. I would have thought religious people would use similar tactics to get to some understanding to what is going on, but of course if they do, countless anomalies appear and as such it is better to aggressively promote their beliefs without rational discussion.
I have said before and I will repeat here that I would be more than willing to accept Creationism rather than Science as an explanation of what is "The Truth' but all I want is some evidence which is testable and repeatable. It is this reason that I fall onto the Atheist side of the fence . It is a pity God Botherers do not employ the same rationality before Aggressively presenting their belifs and personality.
If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will find that I made no references what so ever to religion, I in fact Cherry Picked the Idea of an expanding Universe and questioned whether that was correct and posed the question that maybe the Universe was pulsating. The religious content was introduced by others. AS you well know, if something does not fit observation, something is wrong so the search for the solution that will satisfy observation commences.
Is that a criticism of Science, of course it isn't. It is how Science works. Similarly if one questions a biblical story, it is not criticism of the book but questioning the authenticity of the writing.
When Blind Faith in religion is questioned by highlighting anomalies, then the Believers immediately get aggressive in the defence of their belief. We see it all of the time in ALL religions. Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu, Etc. all defend their belief with Aggression because rational discussion is not an option. Islamic Extremism being it's present manifestation. If you don't believe what we believe, we will kill you.
This aggression manifests itself in varying degrees from physical to mental to personal attacks on one's intelligence. Norcon is a typical proponent of this aggression. If you can't present a rational argument in defence of the question, then turn to aggression.
This demonstration of irrational thought with aggressive response drives my thoughts towards Atheism.
Any structure be it religious doctrine or building a tower, must be based on solid foundations and structure. IF one Cherry Picks the questionable part of the Structure and as such prevent it falling down by fixing the defect then a stable structure is the result. If one ignores the defective component and shoots the messenger who identifies it then of course the structure will eventually collapse.
I have no issue what so ever with religious people ,it is their prerogative to believe what they want even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it is still their right to believe it. What does bother me is the aggressive way these people defend their beliefs which ranges from petty name calling as in Norcons case to downright evil actions such as that carried out by Islamic extremists.
Discuss the questions with rationality and intelligent conversation which should convince the questioner that they are mislead is the way to advancing your beliefs or understanding of the Universe. That in itself is the basis of religion. The ancient civilisation questioned why crops failed and someone came up with the idea it was the Rain God who was angry or some such nonsense. People believed it because thy could not rationally discuss the alternatives until some one questioned the idea of the Rain God, then the Rain God Priests got aggressive to the questioners as the priests position in society was under threat. Of course this is an over simplistic construction of what really happened but you will get the idea.
So in my defence of the aggression toward me from the God Botherers. my original posting was questioning scientific thinking and it was God Botherers that hijacked the discussion by aggressively promoting their creationism. As I questioned Science, I then also question Creationism in an attempt to get closer to the Truth. I certainly do not aggressively promote Scientific Thinking, I tend towards it as, on the balance of the evidence, it appears to me to be more likely to be nearer the truth. I would have thought religious people would use similar tactics to get to some understanding to what is going on, but of course if they do, countless anomalies appear and as such it is better to aggressively promote their beliefs without rational discussion.
I have said before and I will repeat here that I would be more than willing to accept Creationism rather than Science as an explanation of what is "The Truth' but all I want is some evidence which is testable and repeatable. It is this reason that I fall onto the Atheist side of the fence . It is a pity God Botherers do not employ the same rationality before Aggressively presenting their belifs and personality.
To address the original question, a pulsating universe has been thought about many times. I believe it's been discounted at present because there isn't enough mass in the known universe (counting dark matter and dark energy) to overcome the outward motion of all of the galaxies.
In fact the latest measurements using the latest techniques have pointed to an acceleration of the expansion for some unknown reason.
So as far as people can tell the universe seems set to go on expanding forever, probably to the point where there will be no other galaxies visible in the night sky.
Then when all the gas has been used all the stars will go out and everyone will be fcked.
They call that scenario the heat death of the universe I think.
In fact the latest measurements using the latest techniques have pointed to an acceleration of the expansion for some unknown reason.
So as far as people can tell the universe seems set to go on expanding forever, probably to the point where there will be no other galaxies visible in the night sky.
Then when all the gas has been used all the stars will go out and everyone will be fcked.
They call that scenario the heat death of the universe I think.
Perhaps light slows down.
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Thanks for that Sooey, I had read about that some time ago but very quickly got lost in the detail.
In the first response to my original mail, Brigadier gave a link suggesting a contracting universe.
http://www.ibtimes.com/universe-collapsing-scientists-say-process-may-have-already-started-1509490
It does rather make you think who is right and gives a bit of credibility to the Norcon approach although on balance I still think the overwhelming evidence supports the science approach.
I think the only inevitable result of any of it is that we are all Phooked.
In the first response to my original mail, Brigadier gave a link suggesting a contracting universe.
http://www.ibtimes.com/universe-collapsing-scientists-say-process-may-have-already-started-1509490
It does rather make you think who is right and gives a bit of credibility to the Norcon approach although on balance I still think the overwhelming evidence supports the science approach.
I think the only inevitable result of any of it is that we are all Phooked.
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You may well be right.
At least that possibility can be tested through the Mathematics, but not at my level.
Hope Stephen Hawkins is reading this load of old trollop.
In my equally limited understanding light has no mass to slow down, which is why it travels so fast.
Though that doesn't really make sense if energy equals mass times C2, light is energy so it stands to reason it must have some mass.....my heads starting to hurt now.
Though that doesn't really make sense if energy equals mass times C2, light is energy so it stands to reason it must have some mass.....my heads starting to hurt now.
Someone asked " Where have all the apologists gone?"
and I replied "Gone to jihad every one" referencing the protest song.
Now thanks to the mods I'm wondering where have all those posts gone?
When will they ever learn?
When will they evvvver learn?
and I replied "Gone to jihad every one" referencing the protest song.
Now thanks to the mods I'm wondering where have all those posts gone?
When will they ever learn?
When will they evvvver learn?
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Norcon 'clutching at straws' springs to mind.
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Have a look at this to really give you a headache.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
Paracetamol didn't work for this one.
Basic stuff really.
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Basic stuff really.
Referring to year earlier posting,
The M in the E=MC² equation is not the mass of the photon though.
I know, but light is energy. Therefore if energy and mass have an equivalence as expressed in the equation then light as a form of energy must have some mass.
Oops my mistake, those posts are still there. In a different thread. Unreserved apologies to mods.Someone asked " Where have all the apologists gone?"
and I replied "Gone to jihad every one" referencing the protest song.
Now thanks to the mods I'm wondering where have all those posts gone?
When will they ever learn?
When will they evvvver learn?
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