Theresa May's Brexit talks with the Labour Party are a "grave mistake"

[ellal]

Have you worked out what Brexit you want yet?

So what Brexit did you vote for when putting your cross in the 'leave' box?

 

[festive]

So what Brexit did you vote for when putting your cross in the 'leave' box?

Its not a trick question you know.

It means Leave the EU. The important part of the complex challenging vote here is the LEAVE bit.

Just like if we were not part of the EU we would vote to 'Join'

Would you then find it somewhat annoying some jumped up BE saying 'but you don't know how you're going to join do you so we can't join' (because never being part of the EU you wouldn't have any concrete evidence on the outcome)

How tedious is that all you and the others here can say 'you haven't made your made up you don't know how'

Yes please quote this every time.

Leave, with no 'deal' if we have to. If that means doing what you don't like or haven't voted for tough ****, accept it. Just like we have to accept each time who is voted in to run our country. Grow up and move on.

Labour are blocking Mays deal along with Liberal and DUP i agree.

But the point of my post is Labour are opposing anything the Tories are trying to do to move this forward. That is fundamentally wrong here.

 

[EFLImpudence]

...but you cannot just leave and have nothing to do with Europe ever again.

Build a wall around the UK and across Ireland ???


You have to leave and then make agreements for everything (should have been the other way round).

like you have now.

 

[Mfatic]

But the point of my post is Labour are opposing anything the Tories are trying to do to move this forward. That is fundamentally wrong here.

The Opposition's role is to oppose. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that.

 

[Mfatic]

Leave, with no 'deal' if we have to. If that means doing what you don't like or haven't voted for tough ****, accept it. Just like we have to accept each time who is voted in to run our country. Grow up and move on.

A No Deal Brexit has been ruled out by Parliament.
Therefore a Deal that is agreeable to a majority in Parliament is required.
A wise PM/government would have realised this at the outset, and looked for a deal that would be acceptable to a majority.

Labour are blocking Mays deal along with Liberal and DUP i agree.

The idea of having a Parliamentary majority, is that you design your policies which will find a majority support, either within your own party, or with help from the coalition partner, or with cross-party support.
You do not design a policy, hoping it will find sufficient support, and then blame everyone else when it does not receive that support.

Of course, you could suggest a referendum in order to test public support for your policy, and if you have a majority, in a referendum, then you can argue with MPs for the will of the people to be respected.

 

[festive]

A No Deal Brexit has been ruled out by Parliament.
Therefore a Deal that is agreeable to a majority in Parliament is required.
A wise PM/government would have realised this at the outset, and looked for a deal that would be acceptable to a majority.


The idea of having a Parliamentary majority, is that you design your policies which will find a majority support, either within your own party, or with help from the coalition partner, or with cross-party support.
You do not design a policy, hoping it will find sufficient support, and then blame everyone else when it does not receive that support.

Of course, you could suggest a referendum in order to test public support for your policy, and if you have a majority, in a referendum, then you can argue with MPs for the will of the people to be respected.

Wrong this isn't about conforming to a strategy solely designed and instigated from within.

The 'deal' unless i am mistaken is the one the EU has offered us? I don't think it's the other way round. I stand to be corrected.

However it just so happens the main party that could chip in here for the sake of our country wants us to sink first so they can try and refloat the remains.

 

[ellal]

Its not a trick question you know.

Best you inform 'notchy' then

The 'deal' unless i am mistaken is the one the EU has offered us? I don't think it's the other way round. I stand to be corrected.

Indeed you need to be corrected...

The 'deal' is based on the protocol for a country leaving the EU...

A protocol that the UK helped draft and signed up to...

Quitters just don't seem to be able to understand anything!

 

[Mfatic]

Wrong this isn't about conforming to a strategy solely designed and instigated from within.

Which bit of my post do you think is wrong?

A No Deal Brexit has been ruled out by Parliament.
Therefore a Deal that is agreeable to a majority in Parliament is required.
A wise PM/government would have realised this at the outset, and looked for a deal that would be acceptable to a majority.


The idea of having a Parliamentary majority, is that you design your policies which will find a majority support, either within your own party, or with help from the coalition partner, or with cross-party support.
You do not design a policy, hoping it will find sufficient support, and then blame everyone else when it does not receive that support.

Of course, you could suggest a referendum in order to test public support for your policy, and if you have a majority, in a referendum, then you can argue with MPs for the will of the people to be respected.

 

[Mfatic]

The 'deal' unless i am mistaken is the one the EU has offered us? I don't think it's the other way round. I stand to be corrected.
However it just so happens the main party that could chip in here for the sake of our country wants us to sink first so they can try and refloat the remains.

Indeed you need to be corrected...
The 'deal' is based on the protocol for a country leaving the EU...
A protocol that the UK helped draft and signed up to...

The WA is the problem, first. Ellal is correct, whatever you want to call it.
This was the agreement negotiated by our PM.
It is not acceptable to a majority in Parliament.
That is not the fault of those disagreeing with it. It is the fault of the PM failing to to approach the negotiations with the correct tactics or strategy.

If she wanted or needed a majority of Parliament, she should have employed a cross-party negotiating team.
She didn't employ an acceptable strategy, now she has to live with the disagreements.

 

[festive]

Best you inform 'notchy' then


Indeed you need to be corrected...

The 'deal' is based on the protocol for a country leaving the EU...

A protocol that the UK helped draft and signed up to...

Quitters just don't seem to be able to understand anything!

Stop the condescending BS it's boring i think it's clear from your avatar your IQ level so no need to kid yourself.

So why has the EU been clear they can't change or give any more?? Why can't they 'help' change it, hmm you thought about that?

 

[ellal]

Stop the condescending BS it's boring i think it's clear from your avatar your IQ level so no need to kid yourself.

The list of those whom it is so easy to show up over brexit grows ever longer

So why has the EU been clear they can't change or give any more?? Why can't they 'help' change it, hmm you thought about that?

Well you obviously haven't 'thought about it'...

You haven't even bothered finding out what the EU rules are regarding what happens when a country wants to leave!

 

[festive]

The WA is the problem, first. Ellal is correct, whatever you want to call it.
This was the agreement negotiated by our PM.
It is not acceptable to a majority in Parliament.
That is not the fault of those disagreeing with it. It is the fault of the PM failing to to approach the negotiations with the correct tactics or strategy.

If she wanted or needed a majority of Parliament, she should have employed a cross-party negotiating team.
She didn't employ an acceptable strategy, now she has to live with the disagreements.

The WA is the problem, first. Ellal is correct, whatever you want to call it.
This was the agreement negotiated by our PM.
It is not acceptable to a majority in Parliament.
That is not the fault of those disagreeing with it. It is the fault of the PM failing to to approach the negotiations with the correct tactics or strategy.

If she wanted or needed a majority of Parliament, she should have employed a cross-party negotiating team.
She didn't employ an acceptable strategy, now she has to live with the disagreements.

Disagree, our MPs should move on and resolve this. At least the Tories have been showing some balls by voting down Mays deal for their own beliefs on finding a better deal (apart from the others who are just doing it because they want to remain) Labour could make the difference here. But they won't i dont agree they should be paid to sit there by us to deliberately block progress for no reason other than blocking the enemy, that's completely deranged.

So you think it's right because of what May has done it should all go to sh't now and we just reverse Brexit? That will teach us all. Right?

What do you think we should do now then?

 

[festive]

The list of those whom it is so easy to show up over brexit grows ever longer


Well you obviously haven't 'thought about it'...

You haven't even bothered finding out what the EU rules are regarding what happens when a country wants to leave!

Yep another one unable to answer my questions so responds with a question well done

 

[ellal]

Yep another one unable to answer my questions so responds with a question well done

You've certainly now thrown all your toys out of your pram

Better luck next time

PS. Care to define a 'question'?

 

[Mfatic]

So you think it's right because of what May has done it should all go to sh't now and we just reverse Brexit? That will teach us all. Right?

What do you think we should do now then?

I'm not convinced it is worth me giving you my opinion.

But if TM employed the wrong tactic, what can she expect?
The same principle applies to anyone who hopes to carry a majority opinion for their policy. You don't dream up something hoping everyone will accept it. You do some research to find out what people will accept. Well, a wise person would.

Thank fchuk for Gina Miller's court case. Otherwise TM would have ploughed on regardless.

There are two options, persevering with the attempt at a cross-party agreement, or No Brexit.
It looks like both parties are becoming entrenched.
A tentative agreement, put to a referendum, is a sensible and acceptable way forward.

A No Deal is not an option, despite the earlier assertions that No Deal is better than a bad deal. That has been shown up for the fallacy that it was.