Third Class Degree Holders Can't Teach?

[RedHerring]

I've never been a fan of Corny Brown and certainly not one of Tony Bliar, but this latest from Dandy Cameron is just plain daft!

If you have a Third Class Degree you won't be allowed to teach

What planet is he on? Or more likely what side of the classroom is he coming from?

I would suggest that the some of the better teachers are because of their teaching skills i.e. their approach to pupils, thier ability to maintain discipline, their ability to explain the subject, their experience, and their flexibility....not the class of their degree.

I think teaching can, in itself, be a skill. Which is different to being capable in the subject in which you're qualified.

I've often said that a good teacher can teach just about most subjects, just by staying ahead of the pupils and because of their teaching ability, and someone who understands their subject well can teach, just by the breadth and depth of their knowledge. But having a First or Second will not make you a better teacher than having a Third

 

[kidgreen61]

Until teachers are given the power to discipline unruly, disruptive pupils, I don't suppose it makes any difference whether they hold a first, second, or any degree

 

[dave.m]

I don't suppose it makes any difference whether they hold a first, second, or any degree

But a Black Belt to go with it could go a long way in getting a disciplined class.

 

[Bodgeit and scarper ltd]

Third Class Degree is almost a fail, maybe they should get a job as a a teaching assistant or a bin man.

 

[tim west]

ive got a certificate for 25 yards breastroke

 

[RedHerring]

ive got a certificate for 25 yards breastroke

I bet you've got it sewn onto your shorts Had your 10 meter one fallen off
Go on, admit it.

 

[RedHerring]

Third Class Degree is almost a fail, maybe they should get a job as a a teaching assistant or a bin man.

Are you speaking from experience, Bodge?

A third class degree still means that you've completed your honours studies/the course. Without honours a degree is just a degree, surely. In addition, a first or second class degree holder can return/join the teaching profession well after the degree syllabus had any relevance. e.g. the half life of say Geography degree may be tens of years whereas a Technical degree may have a half life of less than ten years.

By a 'half life of a degree' I mean that the knowledge/skill etc pertinent to that degree may be out-of-date in some vaguely estimable time.

I have the same perception that Dave and Kidgreen have; that discipline in schools is far more lacking than any teaching ability and this ought to be the focus of representatives. You can't teach effectively when there are disruptive elements in the class.

 

[big-all]

all any qualification tells you is

at a specific moment on a specific day certain question where answerd in a certain way and nothing else

continual assesment over the year on the job is the only way to find out how good or bad you are

 

[RedHerring]

Big-all, I don't think degree qualifications are that simplistic. They usually comprise certain continuous assesment criteria as well as an examination.

 

[big-all]

yes you right the point i was making was written work as a part off the qulification is the least usefull
course work is more usefull as a propper representaition off someones ability

but nothing teaches you more or sorts out your capabilitys better than doing the job when things go wrong

 

[RedHerring]

So what do you think of Dandy Cameron's idea?

 

[dextrous]

One of the real questions for me is what exactly is it that these "good" graduates are supposed to be capable to do that the current pros in the field are apparently incapable of doing?

Surely the tories can't be suggesting that degrees have been dumbed down so that only good graduates nowadays are in any way comparable to mediocre or poor graduates of yesteryear

Finally, what exactly are these graduates going to be teaching, and to whom; and how much extra are they going to be paid to put up with all the blox and abuse emanating from whitehall and wayward pupils and parents alike?

 

[dave.m]

One main thing that education qualifications show to a potential employer is that the person has the ability to learn and remember what they have been taught, so an employer would not be wasting his time training them.

One girl I knew went to Sheffield Uni and got a degree in Civil Engineering, but the job she wanted, and subsequently got, was as an Air Traffic Controller in the RAF. The qualifications for the job were something like a degree in any subject in a list. They were not relavent to controlling aircraft but proved that when the RAF trained her she had the ability to learn the job and they would not be wasting their time and money on her.

 

[Thermo]

The other thing it shows an employer is they have the will power to apply themselves and stick at it.

My sister in law recently qualified as a teacher and works in a secondary school. Gets all sorts of abuse from kids. I went to a comp 25 years ago and that certainly didnt happen then. Where did it go so wrong?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Teachers need to meet several criteria: the ability to keep discipline; ability to build a rapport with their students; ability to pass on their knowledge to the student. But most important of all is a thorough knowledge of their subject. Not just at the level they are teaching but beyond that.

School kids are very good at sussing out teachers who do not know their subject and will make their life unbearable. I've seen it when I worked in a sixth form college. There were IT teachers who knew less than the technicians who maintained the computers.

Compare that with the professors who deliver the annual Royal Institute lectures to school children at Christmas. The children range in age from about seven to 16. The subject is often difficult even for some adults to follow, but it is well presented with excellent demonstrations and the kids sit there without any problems, keen to participate.

The reason is simple: the lecturer knows his stuff inside out - no sneaky referring to the text book.

It may not be perfect, but I would rather my grandchildren were taught by someone who knows their subject than by someone who thinks they know their subject.