Timer switch

[matlob]

HI, the timer is used to heat a hot water cylinder and also power three storage heaters. Ones I've used before I just set to come on at 5am and off at 7am. The shower in this flat uses the hot water rather than being electric so may have to increase this time though.

I'm going to get like for like but am going to test the one I have to see it I've been setting it incorrectly when next down there

Thanks

 

[JohnD]

HI, the timer is used to heat a hot water cylinder and also power three storage heaters.

That timer is rated at 3kW which is sufficient for an immersion heater, but not both immersion heater and storage heaters, it will be overloaded.

That may well be why it went wrong.

 

[SUNRAY]

That timer is rated at 3kW which is sufficient for an immersion heater, but not both immersion heater and storage heaters, it will be overloaded.

That may well be why it went wrong.

I have worked in a property where a domestic time switch controlled the contactor and meter for off peak heaters

 

[JohnD]

contactor

No overload, then.

 

[JohnW2]

My domestic water heating needs around ¼ hour a day with a 19 kW boiler, but the thermo syphon needs around ½ hour to get going, I have no tank thermostat, so only option was ½ hour every other day, so to be able to set it needs a timer with a week not day timer, so my old mechanical timer was replaced with an electronic one ....

You say that was your "only option" but, as seemingly another 'option', what about installing the tank thermostat which you currently don't have?

I'm not sure what you mean by your "thermo syphon". Are you referring to a non-pumped (i.e. 'convection') system based on a back boiler/whatever? If so, what does the time switch (or tank thermostat, if you had one) actually control - is there a motorised valve in the equation?

.... however for an immersion heater with a built in thermostat at only 3 kW not 19 kW then 6 x ¼ is an hour and a half, as I found out, once hot the cylinder stays hot for over two days, so only reason for a timer is to use off peak power,

Yes, I use a timer on my immersion so that it uses off-peak power. However, the water will only 'stay hot' (at design temp) "for over two days" if you don't actually use any hot water. Mine usually runs (under thermostatic control) for about 1.5 hours each night, rising to about 2.5 hours if I have "a houseful of people" (e.g. over Christmas!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

No overload, then.

That seems to be a fairly wild assumption. It's not uncommon to have a contactor controlled by a timeswitch (or whatever) switching the supply to an 'off-peak CU (which contains OPDs), isn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Sorry @JohnW2 don't want to muddy the waters on this thread, but yes it uses convection. The problem is can't get cables from the location of cistern to boiler to work a hard wired thermostat, and the type of boiler relies on being able to cool on switch off with the thermo syphon so any thermostatic control only works in summer anyway, so I use time only to control DHW and it is in the main good enough.

My immersion heated does of course have a built in thermostat, should electric drop in price.

The Willis system used in Ireland however time is rather important, the cylinder heats from the top down, so longer it is running the more hot water, not seen the system used on main land UK, but that does not mean it does not exist. One could of course use multi-tank thermostats at different distances down, but normally uses simple time.

We are again jumping to conclusions, it may well have off peak power, but as far as I can tell @matlob has not said that, also he has not said one timer works all, he may have four of them, or if it uses a relay of some type.

Fact he has storage heaters does point to off peak power, but next time I am at the flat, seems to point to being a landlord or uses flat on a intermittent basis. These can all change what we would consider best option, I like I am sure many others tend to look at my own situation, my flat has no time set for the heating, it heats up reasonably fast, and when I want to use it I turn up heating, otherwise it is set to a defrost setting. The same boiler does main house, and it seems the flat can starve rest of house of heat, so heats up flat first and full 19 kW into flat heats it fast.

So for me no need for timers in flat, but if using off peak power, then timers are clearly required, and they also need to be reasonably accurate and reliable. Likely connected to some form of telemetry to ensure it only turns on during off peak?

However there was a time when with off peak you paid either more for peak power, or higher standing charge, and many who were out all day realised they were better off only heating when required, I simply can't see the point in guessing.

My time switches in the main are wifi connected in some way, so as a result auto change from correct time (UTC) to daylight saving time.

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry @JohnW2 don't want to muddy the waters on this thread, but yes it uses convection. The problem is can't get cables from the location of cistern to boiler to work a hard wired thermostat, and the type of boiler relies on being able to cool on switch off with the thermo syphon so any thermostatic control only works in summer anyway, so I use time only to control DHW and it is in the main good enough.

Fair enough, but I still don't really have enough information to enable me to fully understand your setup.

"... can't get cables from location of cistern to boiler..." sounds more like a matter of "ease" than of literal impossibility!

However there was a time when with off peak you paid either more for peak power, or higher standing charge ...

That remains the case for most, possibly all, dual-rate tariffs. Were that not the case, going for such a tariff would be a no-brainer for everyone!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

"... can't get cables from location of cistern to boiler..." sounds more like a matter of "ease" than of literal impossibility!

Kind Regards, John

Having worked in a number of multi-occupancy buildings I can understand comments such as Erics.

Door entry and cable TV systems seem to be removed quite often as 'they don't do anything'

 

[JohnW2]

Having worked in a number of multi-occupancy buildings I can understand comments such as Erics.

I imagine that it can sometimes be very difficult in such environments. However, eric was talking about his house.

Door entry and cable TV systems seem to be removed quite often as 'they don't do anything'

Maybe,but that's a totally diffrent issue from how easy/difficult/'impossible'it is to run a cable from A To B.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I imagine that it can sometimes be very difficult in such environments. However, eric was talking about his house.

Maybe,but that's a totally diffrent issue from how easy/difficult/'impossible'it is to run a cable from A To B.

Kind Regards, John

Yes but is Erics house not part a larger property or have I missunderstood that?

I agree it's never impossible to get a cable between 2 points but the practicalities of doing so can often not outweigh the benefits.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes but is Erics house not part a larger property or have I missunderstood that?

You'll have to ask him, but I think it's just a house with an associated 'separate flat', both under his ownership. He's talked a lot about having to pay separate Council Tax on the 'two parts' of his home.

I agree it's never impossible to get a cable between 2 points but the practicalities of doing so can often not outweigh the benefits.

Agreed.

I have sometimes resorted to fairly extreme approaches - such as going through outside walls and routing cables outside of the building!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I have sometimes resorted to fairly extreme approaches - such as going through outside walls and routing cables outside of the building!

Kind Regards, John

Done that, been there. But never on my homes.

 

[bernardgreen]

I agree it's never impossible to get a cable between 2 points

Years ago a pair of teenage sweethearts laid in about 3 miles of cable to provide themselves with a private house to house phone line. It ran covertly across open country along hedge lines and through a culvert under a dual carriageway road. Their parents had complained about their excessive use of their GPO telephones and set limits. A farmer found some of the cable wrapped around the blades of his hedge trimmer. He offered them a "wayleave" if they would install cables for his gate alarm system.

President Nixon on the other hand could not get a cable connection for one of his historic phone calls.

So how do you call the moon? According to the AT&T Archives, "Simply, the call went from the Oval Office in Washington D.C. to Houston, where it was routed into space via Mission Control, through the capsule communicator, or CapCom, astronaut Bruce McCandless II."

 

[JohnW2]

Done that, been there. But never on my homes.

In my case, only on/in my own home - but usually in very inconspicuous locations (e.g. 'high up')!

Kind Regards, John