Timer switch

[ericmark]

The floors are made of some fibre board, we are slowly repairing them, but since can't get in the void ceiling to floor on two floors, it is either a cable outside down side of house, or wifi, in fullness of time likely wifi is the answer, but however I do it, it's a big job, and ideally will only go under floors once, so just before re-floored.

However this does not help @matlob it's not my house but his flat we are talking about, and how he can have a timer which does not fail.

There is not point recommending a replacement or any other option, when we don't know what is really required.

 

[SUNRAY]

Years ago a pair of teenage sweethearts laid in about 3 miles of cable to provide themselves with a private house to house phone line. It ran covertly across open country along hedge lines and through a culvert under a dual carriageway road. Their parents had complained about their excessive use of their GPO telephones and set limits. A farmer found some of the cable wrapped around the blades of his hedge trimmer. He offered them a "wayleave" if they would install cables for his gate alarm system.

President Nixon on the other hand could not get a cable connection for one of his historic phone calls.

So how do you call the moon? According to the AT&T Archives, "Simply, the call went from the Oval Office in Washington D.C. to Houston, where it was routed into space via Mission Control, through the capsule communicator, or CapCom, astronaut Bruce McCandless II."

prior to formula 1 about 1990 I was doing circuit & phone provision in the nearby exchanges and line plant simply ran out with the additional demand.
Suddenly an engineer turned up expecting to extend the kilostream for our internal computers to brands hatch and take the exchange modem (meaning we wouldn't have had our working terminals), I laughed, he wasn't amused.
I asked how much cable he had on board for the modem to terminal lead (RS422 2pair. but they use Belden 9504 4 pair from when they used RTS etc) He brought in 9x 500m drums to try and see if the RS422 would go the distance then I helped him run 7 drums to site. As you say along hedges and farm land and crossed the M20. I promptly comandeered the other 2 pairs for 4 more phones.

 

[JohnW2]

The floors are made of some fibre board ...

The work of the devil

..... but since can't get in the void ceiling to floor on two floors, it is either a cable outside down side of house, or wifi, in fullness of time likely wifi is the answer, but however I do it, it's a big job ...

Indeed. I must say that I'm personally not at all comfortable with the increasing use of wireless connections for these sort of things.

There is not point recommending a replacement or any other option, when we don't know what is really required.

Agreed.

Kind Regards John

 

[ericmark]

I have used Packet Radio, and I am sure I could work some thing out, I also have a few PLC's knocking around with HMI (Human Machine Interface) but at some time I will reach a point when I can no longer look after it, OK likely my son could, but that would not help with anything needing a Radio licence, as he would not be living here.

So I want to use items that a normal tradesman can fix. Not some thing that when the tradesman arrives he says "Don't know what he has done here".

 

[bernardgreen]

Indeed. I must say that I'm personally not at all comfortable with the increasing use of wireless connections for these sort of things.

An opinion shared for a long time by many who work in the radio frequency industry

So I want to use items that a normal tradesman can fix

I have a similar problem, my bespoke lighting control system is most likely to be ripped out and replaced by "conventional" circuitry, ( define "conventional" )

 

[JohnW2]

I have used Packet Radio, and I am sure I could work some thing out, I also have a few PLC's knocking around with HMI (Human Machine Interface) but at some time I will reach a point when I can no longer look after it, OK likely my son could, but that would not help with anything needing a Radio licence, as he would not be living here.

It's not the mechanics of wirleess connections that concern me - you, I and many others could implement that in one way or another. As bernard implies, it's the progressive appearance of more and more RF signals flying around almost every building that I'm less comfortable about

So I want to use items that a normal tradesman can fix. Not some thing that when the tradesman arrives he says "Don't know what he has done here".

Indeed. As bernard has said, that's an additional issue that all three of us (and undoubtedly many more) have - but I personally do not lose too much sleep worrying about what might happen beyond my life (literally or 'useful life'!) !

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

An opinion shared for a long time by many who work in the radio frequency industry

Indeed.

I have a similar problem, my bespoke lighting control system is most likely to be ripped out and replaced by "conventional" circuitry, ( define "conventional" )

The same here, with any number of 'bespoke' (aka 'unconventional' in some people's eyes) things (electrical/electronic and otherwise) around my house - which those in the future probably couldn't not, or would not sent to, maintain. However, as I've just written to eric, "... I personally do not lose too much sleep worrying about what might happen beyond my life (literally or 'useful life'!) "

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

One of the local new housing estates was lovingly described as smart with not a single conventional light switch (other than the plethora of FCUs that seem to adorn most walls of the house). When the early occupants moved in all was fine, they seemed to love being able to program what each switch did etc.
By the time whole streets were occupied people were finding the results of the silly idea of thousands of devices trying to use the very few channels available.

 

[securespark]

I have sometimes resorted to fairly extreme approaches - such as going through outside walls and routing cables outside of the building!

I've done this a few times; often with an MEB in black conduit but also with MICC cable.

 

[matlob]

Hi all
I’ve tested the timer and it still doesn’t turn off. Was slightly different to the one I posted.

I think the switch may only be used for the heating as the hot water seems to make a noise when the switch is off so assume it’s on a thermostat. How can I check this to be sure?

Images below if switch, unit and cylinder.

Thanks for all the help within the thread

 

[JohnD]

Move the pins a little further apart. Does that help?

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes, here is the time/operation point

have you tried it in any other locations around the dial? as I mentioned before the switch I have here can be set to be off for a period of ¼hr (but not on for ¼hr) at some positions of the dial but not all.

It is marginally possible some of the holes are worn, or the dial is not perfectly round (as examples) and using it 12 hours out may be possible.

I've currently had 5 of these timers in service for for a minimum of 16 years (2004) and 2 in service in service when I aquired access to/use of some space around 1992 so no idea what age.
In that time I've only had to change one which coincided with an immersion heater going short circuit and presumably blew the contacts apart.

I also have a selection of various timeswitches to use on an adhoc basis and quite frankly have found electronic versions to be less reliable.

 

[JohnW2]

I’ve tested the timer and it still doesn’t turn off.

To be clear,are you saying that, if you rotate the dial manually, it doesn't 'click' into the 'off position' as you pass the 23:45 pi (and click to'on'as you pass the 22:00 one)? If so, try as JohnD has suggested (even though it should work as you have it).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I've currently had 5 of these timers in service for for a minimum of 16 years (2004) and 2 in service in service when I aquired access to/use of some space around 1992 so no idea what age....

I've had at least double that number in service for about 35 years.

In that time I've only had to change one which coincided with an immersion heater going short circuit and presumably blew the contacts apart.

In that 35 years, I've probably replaced all of them at least once, in some cases twice, but all have lasted for many years (I think always at least 10 years).

The ultimate mode of failure nearly always seem to be some sort of wearing out of the drive train - the motor can still be heard to be running (sometimes becoming a bit noising), but rotation of the dial first becomes unreliable/intermittent (and/or stopping when it hits one of the pin)s and eventually stops all together.

I also have a selection of various timeswitches to use on an adhoc basis and quite frankly have found electronic versions to be less reliable.

Similar experience here. I'm not sure that I have often, if ever, got 10 years out of an electronic one.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I've had at least double that number in service for about 35 years.

In that 35 years, I've probably replaced all of them at least once, in some cases twice, but all have lasted for many years (I think always at least 10 years).

The ultimate mode of failure nearly always seem to be some sort of wearing out of the drive train - the motor can still be heard to be running (sometimes becoming a bit noising), but rotation of the dial first becomes unreliable/intermittent (and/or stopping when it hits one of the pin)s and eventually stops all together.

sounds about right, the 2 i mentioned 1992 are still there and buzzing away. One controls a pair of pumps and changes over at 6am & 10pm (They also have fail detect and auto changeover) the other switches lights and times are changed about 4 times a year.
The pumps have been changed at least 3 times but the time clocks plod on. The original fluo light fittings were there for years but they saved money with LED tubes in them and now on 2nd set of LED light fittings.

Similar experience here. I'm not sure that I have often, if ever, got 10 years out of an electronic one.

Kind Regards, John

Through panel electronic time switches are a very common feature in control panels, we used to get most of our kit from Edwardes Brothers and asked them to stop supplying us a particular make as they weren't lasting a year in the warmth of plant rooms.