timing belt, what would you do?

[Burnerman]

I think we may be heading towards the wind up zone here.....
VAG group = VW, SEAT, Skoda, Audi. I refer to the 2 litre common rail TDI engine which indeed has a replacement interval of 115000 miles / 12 years. I have replaced a grand total of three, and was expecting the belts to show considerable wear. They didn’t. However, all had noisy tensioners, one had a leaking water pump.
You say ‘with a good condition car, doubling the recommended interval should be fine.’ That’s too vague....a taxi can be in good condition at 100000 miles per year. So can a private vehicle covering 5k PA.
I looked at a Lotus Elise, K series 1800 that had stood for one year untouched.....the belt was brand new at lay up. The owner attempted to start up, and the belt came clean off. Turning the engine by hand first would have probably saved it.
John

 

[Mottie]

I've seen broken belts in the past that if I had looked at them before snapping, I'd have said they were fine. I've also taken belts off to remove cylinder heads that have been soaked in oil with bits missing off of them and teeth that you could pick off with your fingernail.

 

[Burnerman]

Not that bloody awful slant four Vauxhall Victor engine , as fitted to the Bedford CF?
Kicked the belt off in 18k or less
John

 

[Mottie]

Not that bloody awful slant four Vauxhall Victor engine , as fitted to the Bedford CF?
Kicked the belt off in 18k or less
John

The good old days when a broken belt didn't mean a set of valves.

 

[Stivino]

Not that bloody awful slant four Vauxhall Victor engine , as fitted to the Bedford CF?
Kicked the belt off in 18k or less
John

You must have been unlucky. Working in a Vauxhall dealer, I never had one of them let go. It was the valve clearances on that engine that were a p.i.t.a. to do.

 

[Burnerman]

I only had the pleasure working on CF’s.....maybe it was all of the road crap under there, together with the oil leaks that saw them off
As for that tapered screw valve clearance adjuster, I’ve seen a few that just wouldn’t come into tolerance.
Then along came the chain driven engine from the Mk.1 Cavalier.....huge relief!
John

 

[Stivino]

They wouldn't come in because each turn was 3thou. And if you only wanted one or two thou, you had to leave it slack.

 

[DiyNutJob]

I looked at a Lotus Elise, K series 1800 that had stood for one year untouched.....the belt was brand new at lay up. The owner attempted to start up, and the belt came clean off. Turning the engine by hand first would have probably saved it.
John

Why was the belt looked at in the beginning of that event? Sounds like a DIY job went bad. A good condition car would be a car that works fine and mildly driven. The start stop of the taxi wouldn't be in good condition. The belts would be the least of its problems. A car that lives a sedentary life would be good condition - grocery shopping, rest a few days, go to the post office, go to the airport on occasions etc. A lot of people's cars would fall into this category. A car that is driven like a race car, whether it is a race car or not, would not fit in this category.

Why would a lotus have a timing belt and not chain? They must have gone cheap on it. Do ferraris come with rubber timing belts too? Genuine question, I am not a car nut, and only someone who's interested in going from A to B cheaply and without hassle or work. I have managed to do that and it's not a wind up. The car is never touched by a garage except for MOT. So, no funky stuff for it. I only go to MOT places where I can watch them. I don't even want to go the the official dealer even though they keep sending me red letters. Got another one today. They are remarkably keen for an 18 year old car.

 

[Mottie]

Why would a lotus have a timing belt and not chain?

They use Toyota and Honda engines I think.

Do ferraris come with rubber timing belts too?

Yep. My mate has. 360 and I think he paid about £1500 to have it replaced a few years ago.

I only go to MOT places where I can watch them.

All MOT stations MUST have a customer viewing area. It's part of the regulations.

 

[Burnerman]

Why was the belt looked at in the beginning of that event? Sounds like a DIY job went bad. A good condition car would be a car that works fine and mildly driven. The start stop of the taxi wouldn't be in good condition. The belts would be the least of its problems. A car that lives a sedentary life would be good condition - grocery shopping, rest a few days, go to the post office, go to the airport on occasions etc. A lot of people's cars would fall into this category. A car that is driven like a race car, whether it is a race car or not, would not fit in this category.

Why would a lotus have a timing belt and not chain? They must have gone cheap on it. Do ferraris come with rubber timing belts too? Genuine question, I am not a car nut, and only someone who's interested in going from A to B cheaply and without hassle or work. I have managed to do that and it's not a wind up. The car is never touched by a garage except for MOT. So, no funky stuff for it. I only go to MOT places where I can watch them. I don't even want to go the the official dealer even though they keep sending me red letters. Got another one today. They are remarkably keen for an 18 year old car.

The belt was fitted by a specialist sports car firm - Hexham Horseless Carriages (!) - and it was done so that the car theoretically was ready to go when the owner came home from overseas.
The problem stems from the belt not wishing to change its shape after storage, and this is where the problems arise - being accellerated to breakneck speed from standstill is sure to take it's toll.
Lotus use a variety of engines - as far as I know the Elise uses the Rover K series (with cylinder head mods, thankfully) and a Toyota lump....I don't know of any others.
I guess you aren't aware of the Lotus Twin Cam 1600 ('Twink') lump......probably way ahead of it's time but incredibly fragile and needed complete rebuilds to keep it going. Hence the demise of many a Mk1 and Mk2 Lotus Cortina. It wasn't as good as all that, and often gave up around 20k - but many would have probably gone further.
John

 

[Diver Fred]

Couldn't make sense of the toothed belt change intervals on the Golf 1.6 Diesel I had - in various sections of the paperwork quoted as 80000 miles, 120000 miles, 120000 KM or 4 years. Main dealers were equally obtuse, VW UK couldn't or didn't want to give an answer.
In the end changed at around 80K miles and 8 years old.

Over the years seen 2 toothed belt failures on family vehicles - one on a Ford Pinto engine just in warranty, one on a 6 year old Bedford CF (in the middle of Leicester morning rush hour...).

In my opinion the only sensible use for Toothed belts is to drive ancillaries.

 

[Burnerman]

The original Ford Endura engine was similar.....two belts, change both at 36000 Horrible, clunky old lump it was too.
Unfortunately timing chains are letting go too - maybe that's due to extreme oil change intervals, I don't know. There doesn't seem to be an exact formula but it's belts for me......nice and quiet, most are easy enough to deal with.
John

 

[DiyNutJob]

All MOT stations MUST have a customer viewing area. It's part of the regulations.

When did this regulation come into effect? I forgot, I did go to an MOT place for a few years where I could not watch. The waiting area was outside of the garage in a kind of worksite shed. They were very cheap. Their MOT was very mysterious. The car sat there for an hour with nothing happening, then it was done. One day the MOT guy said he would let me off on bad emissions for £10. I gave it to him, and never went back. Overall, I stilled saved. The car had perfect emissions every time before and after that event.

Unfortunately timing chains are letting go too - maybe that's due to extreme oil change intervals

Or maybe not. I run extreme intervals and my chain isn't breaking. It runs butter smooth. Old oil is good stuff, higher MPG.

 

[Mottie]

When did this regulation come into effect?

It's been in effect for as long as I can remember. Part of the specifications of installing a test bay. I know from when I set one up in 2001. From memory it only has to be something like 1mx2m or even smaller but it must be somewhere under cover and dry. Must be clearly marked out too. It can also be complied with by the use of CCTV too.

Here you go:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide/d-requirements-for-authorisation

 

[DiyNutJob]

It's been in effect for as long as I can remember.

Thanks for that. I am not much of a regulations reader. Is it mandatory that they must offer a while you wait service? They are all very keen to have the car left with them. I know a local one that insists on it or not do the job. They are the same one that serviced another car of a family member for years. Then one day, dark grey packing foam was stuffed behind the cabin air filter. These were sucked into the cabin fan resulting in imbalance and making a racket. After that I told her she's having a 10 year service interval from now on because it will work better and less work. It took me 3/4 of a day to extract the foam pieces. I could do an oil change in less time than that.