Tony Blair.

[joe-90]

It's not working mate. You are clearly in denial. If you do research to prove me wrong (you do know what that is don't you?) - then you simply prove me right. So all you do is put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and go 'la la la'. Now tell what you have a PhD in. Does it totally exclude logic? Don't you realise that if the things that you believe in are clearly impossible in the physical world, then the things that you hold to be true simply cannot be so? Did you watch the video I posted? No you didn't because had you done so you would have realised that your concept of reality was in fact flawed. So you can bluster all you like. You can call me a racist if you wish, but your post about' coloured people with suspiciously fat lips' proves beyond doubt who the real racist is. Now why don't we look at the facts together and see which ones are possible in this universe and which ones aren't?

 

[jockscott]

I won't give up on you. I promise. I don't have a degree but my daughter is doing a PhD in psychology. I've read many of her books and I can see your issues. Bear with me and I'll help you out.

And therefore this makes Joe an expert. Dunno what in, but he says he's read her books. (reckon that would be the Janet and John books she had at primary school) Joe once finished a jigsaw puzzle in three weeks... He was really pleased as it said 2-7 years on the box.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As I said before, I do not want to take sides.
I have no idea what happened before I was born other than that which I have been told by officialdom.
Whether that was the truth or an elaborate pretension, I also cannot know.

However, this is apt:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/timelines/z86nfg8 today:

"More Jews were murdered in 1942 than in any other year of the Holocaust, the majority in the newly created extermination camps.

Of the 430,000 sent to the first death camp at Bełżec in Poland, there were only two survivors. 700,000 were killed at Treblinka in just five months. In July, Himmler ordered that all Jews in key areas of Poland, except for those needed for essential labour, were to be killed by the end of the year. Most were. Despite Allied intelligence receiving detailed reports of the mass murders in Europe, the public reaction in Britain was largely a mixture of apathy and disbelief."

That 700,000 - killed in one place in five months - is almost 5,000 bodies a day to dispose of.
Unless buried in huge holes it would seem to be a major problem.

 

[joe-90]

The 'official' death toll at Treblinka is 900,000. Now this is the incredible bit. The Nazis forgot to build crematoria at Treblinka so couldn't dispose of ANY of the bodies. They supposedly dug a hole the size of an Olympic swimming pool. They supposed gassed all these people then carried them one-by-one and dumped them in a hole that modern day laser scans prove never existed. The number of people we are talking about is ten times the FA cup final crowd. If something is logistically impossible - then it never happened. It clearly could never have happened. Treblinka was a transit camp sending Jews to Russia. After the war they migrated to Israel. Which explanation seems most likely? Neither did they travel in such vast numbers as the rail network in Poland made it impossible to do so, and even if they had - they would have shown up on surveillance photos (which they don't).

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

As I said before, I do not want to take sides.
I have no idea what happened before I was born other than that which I have been told by officialdom.
Whether that was the truth or an elaborate pretension, I also cannot know.

However, this is apt:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/timelines/z86nfg8 today:

"More Jews were murdered in 1942 than in any other year of the Holocaust, the majority in the newly created extermination camps.

Of the 430,000 sent to the first death camp at Bełżec in Poland, there were only two survivors. 700,000 were killed at Treblinka in just five months. In July, Himmler ordered that all Jews in key areas of Poland, except for those needed for essential labour, were to be killed by the end of the year. Most were. Despite Allied intelligence receiving detailed reports of the mass murders in Europe, the public reaction in Britain was largely a mixture of apathy and disbelief."

That 700,000 - killed in one place in five months - is almost 5,000 bodies a day to dispose of.
Unless buried in huge holes it would seem to be a major problem.

Clearly you are taking sides as you have decided you know more about this than the historians and academics who spend their lives arguing and writing on the subject. Why not leave it to those who know what they are talking about to debate the facts, rather than believe the crap from neo-Nazis? What the hell do you expect to achieve by asking online 'experts'? None of us here have spent any time doing research in the field.

And you've seen Herr Holzkopf attributing to the Red Cross a quote that they say was made up, and saying that bodies do not burn. If it was so bleedin' easy to dismiss the researches of historians, you'd have to conclude either that a) all historians and academics are thick or b) they are all in on a conspiracy, along with tens if not hundreds of thousands of witnesses, and physical evidence on the ground.

This is informative:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html

Our resident neo-Nazi will dismiss it as an organisation run by Jews, but unlike neo-Nazi web sites, they give sources so their claims can be independently checked. The neo-Nazis such as Joe-90 do no more than make statements. Real historical research is based on examination of evidence (physical and testimonies), and the presentation of the evidence with sources cited, and conclusions. Real historians indicate when there is doubt.

Neo-Nazis squeal "Those results were published by Jew owned organisation", squawk, cry, blubber, blubber, boo hoo hoo. And so on.

 

[vinty]

The problem with the holocaust narrative is that unlike other well documented Genocides the existence of bodies and the cause of death has never been verified by independent impartial investigation by professionals, in other words the Holocaust only exists in the minds of those who believe in it.
The only evidence that anything happened comes from the eyewitness accounts, so take away the eye witness accounts and a morgue is just a morgue and not a gas chamber, Zyclon B is just a disinfectant and not a murder weapon ect. so if an "eye witness"says he saw 5000 people a day being cremated in crematoria capable of cremating only a few hundred a day he has to be telling the truth or the Holcaust did happen as claimed.

Wow. So you can provide supporting evidence from respected academics and historians who support this view, or you've been uncritically reading the sort of lies and misinformation Joe-90 posts, and which are propagated by organisations and people with neo-Nazi connections? Would you care to explain why all respected historians have no issue with the accounts on Wikipedia for example? It is hard for a non expert to pick apart the lies, as you need to be an expert in the field. But one poster showed the so-called quote from the Red Cross was in fact disowned by the Red Cross, and hence was made up by these extreme right wing types. Some of the people he cites as sources for 'facts' have been imprisoned for inciting racial hatred, by spreading false information for example.

The problem with these extreme right wing types is they say "we like Jews, we just want to find the truth" but in reality they make up 'facts', then conclude "oh look, those Jews have lied, well they are not very nice are they". And in any case, the Nazis murdered not just Jews, but Roma, homosexuals, political opponents, the mentally handicapped and so on. In fact the mentally handicapped were some of the first to be gassed, by directing the exhaust of a van into the rear compartment.

The problem with relying on the so called academics is that this subject is so toxic that any Historian who voiced any doubts would have their careers destroyed overnight, the fact that people have been jailed for questioning the accepted version of the holocaust is evidence enough that the story can't stand on it's own.
How many of these so called respected academics ever witnessed a single person being gassed never mind four millions, Raul Hilberg the worlds "leading"authority on the Holocaust had never set foot in concentration camp except for a commemoration ceremony at Auschwitz some years ago , the problem is that a lot of these so called authorities copy each others work without doing any primary research into the subject, as the holocaust is such a sensitive subject they know that what they write will never be subjected to any sort of critical analysis and if it is they scream "denier."

 

[joe-90]

You are forgetting something Turkey. Anyone who investigates and denies the Holocaust is immediately arrested and imprisoned. This seems to be a policy that you endorse. Is that true?
The Red Cross figures are accurate. The Jews try to claim that they are not, but they tie in with the records of the day.
Nizkor are a bunch of hyper Zionists. Just ignore them. Your problem Turkey, is that you've been brainwashed as a child by your Jewish parents and you are finding it very difficult to get past it. You need to look at the subject with an open mind, then apply science to the results. Bodies DON'T burn unless the water is driven off by heat. That process is called cremation and takes about two and a half hours. If bodies burned, then there would be no body to bury after a house fire now would there? You need to learn a little about Occam's Razor. The most likely explanation is nearly always the truth. The holocaust fails Occam's Razor at every turn. It simply isn't possible to transport 11,000,000 all over Europe without tens of thousand of engines, carriages, and miles of line. Saying the people got there by 'magic' isn't very scientific is it. Let your scholars answer that one.

 

[vinty]

As I said before, I do not want to take sides.
I have no idea what happened before I was born other than that which I have been told by officialdom.
Whether that was the truth or an elaborate pretension, I also cannot know.

However, this is apt:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/timelines/z86nfg8 today:

"More Jews were murdered in 1942 than in any other year of the Holocaust, the majority in the newly created extermination camps.

Of the 430,000 sent to the first death camp at Bełżec in Poland, there were only two survivors. 700,000 were killed at Treblinka in just five months. In July, Himmler ordered that all Jews in key areas of Poland, except for those needed for essential labour, were to be killed by the end of the year. Most were. Despite Allied intelligence receiving detailed reports of the mass murders in Europe, the public reaction in Britain was largely a mixture of apathy and disbelief."

That 700,000 - killed in one place in five months - is almost 5,000 bodies a day to dispose of.
Unless buried in huge holes it would seem to be a major problem.

Clearly you are taking sides as you have decided you know more about this than the historians and academics who spend their lives arguing and writing on the subject. Why not leave it to those who know what they are talking about to debate the facts, rather than believe the crap from neo-Nazis? What the hell do you expect to achieve by asking online 'experts'? None of us here have spent any time doing research in the field.

And you've seen Herr Holzkopf attributing to the Red Cross a quote that they say was made up, and saying that bodies do not burn. If it was so bleedin' easy to dismiss the researches of historians, you'd have to conclude either that a) all historians and academics are thick or b) they are all in on a conspiracy, along with tens if not hundreds of thousands of witnesses, and physical evidence on the ground.

This is informative:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html

Our resident neo-Nazi will dismiss it as an organisation run by Jews, but unlike neo-Nazi web sites, they give sources so their claims can be independently checked. The neo-Nazis such as Joe-90 do no more than make statements. Real historical research is based on examination of evidence (physical and testimonies), and the presentation of the evidence with sources cited, and conclusions. Real historians indicate when there is doubt.

Neo-Nazis squeal "Those results were published by Jew owned organisation", squawk, cry, blubber, blubber, boo hoo hoo. And so on.

You are on thin ice if you are quoting Nizkor as evidence of anything, they were still claiming that the soap story was true until a few years ago.

 

[vinty]

I won't give up on you. I promise. I don't have a degree but my daughter is doing a PhD in psychology. I've read many of her books and I can see your issues. Bear with me and I'll help you out.

Guten Tag Herr Holzkopf

Right, so you don't even have a degree, you cite supposed 'facts' which either have no source, or the source is an extremist right wing organisation/person with neo-Nazi links. The sources I have access to cite respected academic journals, books and well known figures e.g. General Eisenhower. I do have a degree, and a PhD, both from Russell group universities. But to be honest no-one needs a degree to see that you are posting crap. I won't waste any more time with this dross. You are a neo-Nazi, no bones about it, and I despise such scum, because that is what you are, degrenerate, dishonest racist scum. Go crawl back under your stone. If it'll have you back, I don't think it will.

On the subject of Eisenhower you may not be aware the he never set foot in any of the alleged extermination camps, also when he wrote his memoirs he accused the Nazis of all sorts of brutality but he never specifically accuses them of gassing any one, maybe it slipped his mind.

 

[joe-90]

It slipped Churchill's mind too.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

The problem with relying on the so called academics is that this subject is so toxic that any Historian who voiced any doubts would have their careers destroyed overnight, the fact that people have been jailed for questioning the accepted version of the holocaust is evidence enough that the story can't stand on it's own.
How many of these so called respected academics ever witnessed a single person being gassed never mind four millions, Raul Hilberg the worlds "leading"authority on the Holocaust had never set foot in concentration camp except for a commemoration ceremony at Auschwitz some years ago , the problem is that a lot of these so called authorities copy each others work without doing any primary research into the subject, as the holocaust is such a sensitive subject they know that what they write will never be subjected to any sort of critical analysis and if it is they scream "denier."

Complete nonsense.

"the fact that people have been jailed for questioning the accepted version of the holocaust "

Actually no, they have been jailed for deliberately and knowingly lying about the Holocaust, in order to advance their own agenda. Any historian and/or academic can publish research that contradicts any accepted fact, as long as they provide supporting evidence, or show that the accepted fact lacks supporting evidence. Regarding David Irving, one such example, I quote from Wikipedia:

"Irving's reputation as a historian was discredited when, in the course of an unsuccessful libel case he filed against the American historian Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books, he was shown to have deliberately misrepresented historical evidence in order to promote Holocaust denial."

You may not like Wikipedia, but unlike neo-Nazis and their hangers on, they give sources so you can check that the above is indeed factually correct. People are not jailed for carrying out research with honest intentions. They are jailed if they can be shown to have deliberately made up or misrepresented evidence.

You might have noticed that the Nazis were quite through in keeping records, many of which survive despite concerted attempts to destroy it by the Nazis at the end of the war.

 

[joe-90]

But it IS a Jewish owned resource. Hardly impartial.

 

[joe-90]

You might have noticed that the Nazis were quite through in keeping records, many of which survive despite concerted attempts to destroy it by the Nazis at the end of the war.

This is true Turkey. Well done we are getting somewhere. The records show that the so-called death camps received no more Zyclon-B than the non- death camps. They also showed that the death camps received no more coke per head than the non-death camps. Well done.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You might have noticed that the Nazis were quite through in keeping records, many of which survive despite concerted attempts to destroy it by the Nazis at the end of the war.

This is true Turkey. Well done we are getting somewhere. The records show that the so-called death camps received no more Zyclon-B than the non- death camps. They also showed that the death camps received no more coke per head than the non-death camps. Well done.

Yet another so-called 'fact' with no supporting source. Hence we can discard it as yet another made up lie by Herr Holzkopf, the forum resident neo-Nazi.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

But it IS a Jewish owned resource. Hardly impartial.