Travellers! Land grabbing ****

[AdamW]

I've just had a thought. In almost every area of the country there are campsites. Despite our climate, people go camping.

However, other than for particular events and the month of August, I am yet to see an English campsite with more than a few tents up.

Why don't travellers go to these places? Camping on a campsite is perfectly legal, the campsite owner would earn more on his site... can anyone else see the blatant problem here?

 

[david and julie]

I think we all no the reason Adam. But no doubt some of our do-gooders would say we were wrong to suggest it.

 

[pipme]

This gets them anything .... "Crafty, dafty !!" ..... "Me no, understand !" .. But, knows the benefit rule book inside and out !!!
P

 

[kendor]

better still what about Butlins they need the cash!

 

[kendor]

I think we all no the reason Adam. But no doubt some of our do-gooders would say we were wrong to suggest it.

The term "do-gooders" meaning to help someone in need is being read as help the dodgers,criminals and anti socials, this form of generalisation and prejudice doesn't help the cause one bit but alienates the genuine honest people who will eventually turn that way through sheer frustration, there needs to be an understanding of others plight and a genuine concern and care for others, only this way can we root out the cancer in society and live in harmony. This has been proved to work on housing projects where a purpose in life has been given to people who before lived on troublesome estates and in despair, who now live respectable lives and the troublesome element have either transformed or left.

 

[david and julie]

Yes kendor, I agree with your comments.

The Gypsies should of shown more concern for this old ladies chosen way of life. Furthermore, as you say, they were wrong to alienate and frustrate her and should of have understood her plight and left her land.

I didn't think you would of agreed with Mrs Thatchers right to buy policies though.

This has been proved to work on housing projects where a purpose in life has been given to people

I have read everything correctly haven't I ?

 

[TexMex]

Just to clarify my position, I don't seriously believe that we should form a vigilante group to go around and beat up the blaggards, but perhaps some unified lobbying to get this individual her rights would be in order.

This 62 year old woman was actively using this land as a smallholding to make a living. It wasn't a bit of "investment land". But since she is just one voice, the local council decide to sacrifice her rights, rather than upset the travellers.

The shame is, that it is not the British way to protest against injustice. We are just inclined to air our discontent to friends, neighbours, and forums, but never unify to make our voices heard where it is needed.

Perhaps if councils, magistrates, MPs etc.. had a genuine concern for public opinion, they wouldn't allow this sort of criminal activity to perpetuate in the first place. Thier lack of concern is due to our collective inactivity, when such injustices are brought to light.

I don't know what the answer is, but this is definately a case where "might is right" has prevailed. Something should be done to stop this sort of bullying. Any suggestions?

BTW, I'd feel just as strongly if it was a local farmer or next door neihbour that was getting away with this trespass. But then, it would have been sorted already wouldn't it?

 

[kendor]

Yes kendor, I agree with your comments.

The Gypsies should of shown more concern for this old ladies chosen way of life. Furthermore, as you say, they were wrong to alienate and frustrate her and should of have understood her plight and left her land.

I didn't think you would of agreed with Mrs Thatchers right to buy policies though.

This has been proved to work on housing projects where a purpose in life has been given to people

I have read everything correctly haven't I ?

There you go the term "Gypsies" implies all Gypsies! it's a generalisation, what you should have said is a Mob or likewise, do you see my point?
Under no circumstances am i condoning the appalling behaviour of these people that did this but by the same way you shouldn't "Tar everyone by the same brush" the fact is, a lot of these so called "New age travellers" are not even Romany!.
Not sure where Thatcher's policies come into it though? The housing projects i spoke of are still council run with tenants, they basically levelled the hi rise estates and built better designed more appealing housing which seem to have either stabilised the unruly element or they have moved on.

 

[david and julie]

kendor..I didn't make a generalisation, I clearly referred to the gypsies on her land and harassing the lady in question. The fact is that the gypsies freeloading, chosen lifestyle, is at odds with the way most people live.

As regards council policies on high rise and problem estates,I disagree. In M/cr they have knocked these places down and replaced them with even
smaller homes. The people on these estates are living on top of each other and paying a lot more for the priviledge. The council may blow their own trumpets and show the best parts of these estates, but it is to early to tell if they have been succesful.

I don't understand your comment about troublesome elements leaving or going elsewhere, this is only moving the problem. This may improve things in area A but it only brings down area B. But then lets face in M/cr's case the press (and John Prescott) only went to area A, to suit their propoganda needs.

As regards Mrs Thatchers policies, if you go on most council estates the bought houses stand out like sore thumbs. These have improved peoples lives and given them a sense of pride.

I think the authorities and police are just as much to blame as the gypsies, they are only concerned with money. If you prosecute, levy a fine or local charge on a gypsy he will just go. It is such a waste of time persuing this that the authorities don't bother. It is so much easier for them with the static population.

If you fancy a bit of harmonisation find a local gypsy site this weekend and go walkabout on it, it will be interesting to see how you get on.

 

[kendor]

kendor..I didn't make a generalisation, I clearly referred to the gypsies on her land and harassing the lady in question. The fact is that the gypsies freeloading, chosen lifestyle, is at odds with the way most people live.

As regards council policies on high rise and problem estates,I disagree. In M/cr they have knocked these places down and replaced them with even
smaller homes. The people on these estates are living on top of each other and paying a lot more for the priviledge. The council may blow their own trumpets and show the best parts of these estates, but it is to early to tell if they have been succesful.

I don't understand your comment about troublesome elements leaving or going elsewhere, this is only moving the problem. This may improve things in area A but it only brings down area B. But then lets face in M/cr's case the press (and John Prescott) only went to area A, to suit their propoganda needs.

As regards Mrs Thatchers policies, if you go on most council estates the bought houses stand out like sore thumbs. These have improved peoples lives and given them a sense of pride.

I think the authorities and police are just as much to blame as the gypsies, they are only concerned with money. If you prosecute, levy a fine or local charge on a gypsy he will just go. It is such a waste of time persuing this that the authorities don't bother. It is so much easier for them with the static population.

If you fancy a bit of harmonisation find a local gypsy site this weekend and go walkabout on it, it will be interesting to see how you get on.

Im sorry but you have got the wrong end of the stick with both things i was saying, When you mention the "gypsies" whether they were all gypsies or not they were a mob there are honest law abiding gypsies who would find your comments offensive.
secondly it's nothing to do with Thatcher and her privately bought houses thats what you are saying??
I mentioned council estates that are still council estates and still council owned, no private housing on them.

 

[david and julie]

Kendor with respect you appear to be more concerned with upsetting a group than this ladies rights.

I do appreciate you are trying to be fair minded and compassionate, but I just don't think these people would afford you the same.

The fact is they have stolen her land and violated her rights. Basically speaking, they don't care about peaceful co-existance, if they did they wouldn't of done it.

What would happen to the country if we all at an attitude which precluded us from paying into the system whilst getting everything we can from it?

How do you know whether an apparent council estate is council owned or not? I find in my travels that most of the improved estates have been transferred to housing associations or to co-operatives of some sort.

These estates do then improve because the rubbish is thrown out, the problem is then as I said. They then move into another council owned house and start again.

 

[pipme]

........ honest law abiding gypsies who would find your comments offensive..

IMHO they would have a job to survive among the travelling crew.... You see, to be with them, you have to be one of them .. conform to their ways or ship out PDQ
P

 

[kendor]

By using the term Gypsies you immediately brand all of them with this act when it probably wasn't gypsies anyway. the name is used too readily these days to describe troublemakers and such.
Another group getting a lot of unwarranted stick these days are Muslims.
I'm getting the impression that you feel i'm making a personal attack on you, this is not the case i'm merely putting forward my views, so no bad feelings ok.

 

[Richardp]

whats the opposite of a "do gooder?"

 

[pipme]

........Another group getting a lot of unwarranted stick these days are Muslims........

I do wonder, if there are many Muslims saying the same about, for example, the English ?
There are certainly differences in the standards and outlooks, we would have a mighty lot to learn from them regarding the importance of family.
P