Turn off power for two hours?

[Vicario]

Well, what a palaver! I posted a question on the BGHelp feed on Twitter - confirmed what you all said. I also asked my electricity supplier - ditto. So I rang to cancel the install...(deep breath.....) BG's dedicated smart meter department to whom I managed to be put through are adamant that the new type of smart gas meter does not need an electric smart meter in order to transmit data and they have installed thousands already in homes that do not have one. I asked for confirmation from a manager and have been promised a call back. They also asked for the name of the person who had replied on Twitter....oops! So where are we now? If anyone has access to the gas installer forum and can post there, I'd love to know what they say. But this does validate some of the points in the replies here that the whole thing is a total nightmare; and this is a month before the planned install.

 

[SimonH2]

If you like a bit of fun, and can spare the time, wait till the guy comes to fit it and ask how it communicates - before you let him touch anything. If he says something like "it talks to the lecky meter" then you can put him straight and he can leave for his next job.

 

[AndyPRK]

according to their twitter feed, they can't guarantee fitting SMET2 meters, so cancel the install!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'm not saying they would, but they could just fit the gas smart meter and have you supply or meter reader supply the readings. I'm on my third or fourth pair now and when you swap suppliers they become dumb until replaced, so back to manual reading for much of the time.

You just press '9' then it briefly shows you the reading before moving on to other values.

 

[AndyPRK]

Good point! It would get their numbers up

and smart meters are much more difficult to read manually.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Good point! It would get their numbers up

and smart meters are much more difficult to read manually.

No, you just have to be quick and remember the numbers before the display moves on. They would be even easier, because the display is clear and backlit, if they displayed for a bit longer.

Both of my meters get swapped in around 45 minutes for both, but they are outside in cupboards and easy. A local friend has his gas meter in a cupboard at ground level and surrounded by pipes and cables, it was incredibly difficult. The meter swapper gave up and called for backup and a different day

 

[SimonH2]

Both of our meters are really easy to read - large, clear, high contrast digits, visible from a distance. But then that's easy with mechanical dials
I have yet to see an electronic display meter that's anywhere near as easy to read.

As for "smart" meters going dumb on change of supplier, that's because they are pre-SMETS2 standard. Most of the "smart" meters fitted so far will need to be replaced* again before they'll work with the national network and deliver 'some' of the features/claimed benefits of the project.
* It is said that some of them can have their communication module replaced in situ - will be interesting to see whether that works out.

 

[Vicario]

I've been thinking! If gas meters work with a battery then how come they want to turn off at the mains for 2 hours? Surely they don't need to touch the CU. I have a dongle which I plug into my laptop and connects to the mobile data network (£10 a month from 3). Used when visiting elderly relative with no internet and always gets a good signal. If the meter doesn't need to talk to the electricity one (according to BG) then the above is the only other way it can send data. No need to touch the mains.

 

[bernardgreen]

If there are smart meters for gas that run on batteries then the life of the battery will depend on how much power the transmitter has to use to reach the nearest mobile phone mast.

Because this communication to a remote mobile mast can result in a short battery life then the use of a relay unit with mains power is required. This relay unit may be the smart meter on the electric supply or if there is no smart meter on the electrics then the display unit will be the relay unit. The gas meter transmitter only has to reach that display unit. Unplug the display and I am sure estimated bills will start arriving and maybe letters requesting the display unit is plugged back in..

It had to be some dim wit in a leather office chair who created this shambles

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Both of our meters are really easy to read - large, clear, high contrast digits, visible from a distance. But then that's easy with mechanical dials
I have yet to see an electronic display meter that's anywhere near as easy to read.

The LCD digits are larger than the mechanical meters, about twice the size and back lit, so mine are certainly easier to read even in the dark. My only criticism is that the reading goes off much to quickly.

Yes, I am also well aware of the SMET1 / 2 issues. I became aware at my first supplier swap after they were installed. At my most recent supplier change last Novemeber, I enquired when they would be changing mine to SMET2 and was promised it would be last March, that didn't happen so I asked again in May and was told the would be fitted in August (this month), but nothing so far. I made it clear this time, that I wasn't prepared to allow them access to swap them this time, unless they definitely were fitting SMET2.

For my own interest, I log E, G and W readings each Sunday and feed them into a spread sheet, so I read them manually anyway, then feed my readings each week to my suppliers website.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It had to be some dim wit in a leather office chair who created this shambles

A government leather office chair no doubt?

It was never thought through at all, it was just rushed in, with an half prepared spec..

We have all been encouraged to shop around for suppliers, ever since it was de-nationalised, yet the 'leather chair' never saw these problems coming - so the fiasco has cost the paying public billions of pounds.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If there are smart meters for gas that run on batteries then the life of the battery will depend on how much power the transmitter has to use to reach the nearest mobile phone mast.

I don't think there are any stand alone smart gas meters, which can report to base. They have to work with an electric meter, which can obviously use mains power. I doubt the smart gas meter can even manage to report to the indoor display, without the smart electric meter.

The electric meter updates the indoor unit every few seconds, but the gas is only updated every few minutes - it is a far from being instant reading.

 

[SimonH2]

They were "sold" to politicians as a magic bullet that cut usage and CO2 emissions - and allow balancing of the grid with all the intermittent generation. There were also "rather optimistic" projections of the billions of quid they'd save people.
Of course, we now know that MTtD (mean time to draw) for the in-home displays is about 6 weeks, and most of the other savings aren't going to happen.
As one example of a projected saving that won't happen. DNOs were supposed to save quite a bit by being able to monitor end-point voltage across the network - and thus be able to proactively do maintenace and adjustments. But the requirements weren't pit into the meter spec and the voltage measurement isn't accurate enough for that purpose

 

[bernardgreen]

and allow balancing of the grid with all the intermittent generation

The only way that smart meters could contribute to that would be if they could be remotely commanded to disconnect supplies to some customers Either total loss or partial loss of heavy loads with essential circuits ( lighting etc ) not dissed. But we are told that smart meters do not have a disconnect function.

But as can be seen in this VIDEO ( youtube) inside one type of smart meter there is a large relay between Live IN and Live Out

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But as can be seen in this VIDEO ( youtube) inside one type of smart meter there is a large relay between Live IN and Live Out

I would have been surprised had they not had the means to disconnect individual supplies. My only objection to that is that it has the possibility to be hacked and lots of people disconnected. My own standpoint is that it is a lot of money invested, but lots of opportunities missed to make it really useful to the grid load management, to signal lots of small unnecessary loads to disconnect, such as freezers, maybe bribing customers to allow that - just as is done with large industrial consumers at the moment. Instead we have a system which can only avoid meter readers having to read the meters and a very lame indoor display for the customer. With just a tiny extra step, they could have allowed their customers direct access to the data via their PC's - it would have avoided me manually logging it each Sunday.