Are they entitled to have their own states.
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- Thread starter SirGalahad
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NI is not a sovereign state.
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That wasn't the question i asked.
Can the UK decide what happens to Scotland.
C
Captain Nemesis
Not this one.
On the constitutional status of Northern Ireland, the Agreement is clear that the decision is binary, decided by 50% plus one.
As part of the Good Friday Agreement, an explicit provision for holding a Northern Ireland border poll was made in UK law. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 states that “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.
The article you initially linked to said that someone was arguing that there should be parallel consent, not stating that there had to be. You then switched to some "UN law" thing about the right to self-determination, and now you've gone back to parallel consent being mandated.
Are you sure youre not thinking of the need for a parallel poll in the Republic?
Are you sure youre not trying to change reality by wishing?
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An example of how a minority can override the decision of a democratic minority.
Below is the legislative mechanism used to block legislation which has been approved by a majority.
This is why the DUP boycotted the Belfast agreement.
WHAT IS PETITION OF CONCERN?
A petition of concern can make it harder for new laws to be approved as it triggers a requirement that the proposed legislation can only be introduced with cross-community support.
Whereas a majority vote is normally needed before bills are implemented, a petition of concern means 60 per cent of the chamber and 40 per cent of both unionist and nationalist representatives must accept it.
C
Captain Nemesis
Which you obviously think is a good thing.
Did you think that in any circumstances where it seemed to you that the decision of a "democratic majority" to leave the EU was in danger of being overriden by a minority? Or even paused to give time for reflection and reconsideration?
And does that apply to a border poll, or is that just simple majority territory?
That would have to be negotiated.
Maybe a 2 thirds majority would be a better idea.
A simple majority of 50% plus 1 could lead to instability.
Quote.
As part of the Good Friday Agreement, an explicit provision for holding a Northern Ireland border poll was made in UK law. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 states that “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.
Although the agreement allows for a border poll, it doesn't state what form the aforesaid poll should take.
Personally i don't agree with it, but this mechanism to override democracy was inserted into the Belfast agreement at the insistence of Sinn Fein.
If the consent of both communities is required for N.I. to function, then why shouldn't the consent of both communities be required to determine the future of N. I.
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Captain Nemesis
Indeed.
That concept is common in many referendums in many other countries, particularly over constitutional issues. Minimum turnout too.
It was only the idiots who designed the EU referendum of 5 years ago who decided to design it so that a simple majority of simple idiots could inflict a simply idiotic decision on the country.
In the end wasnt it only something like 25-30% of the electorate voted to leave? Shameful way to organise something so important.
Indeed.
Nor is it subject to a Petition Of Concern, being an executive order from the SoS.
A wise one, of course, would give very careful consideration to what he or she viewed as the appearance of a majority. But sadly Mo Mowlam is dead.
C
Captain Nemesis
It will never function properly, nor ever have an attractive future, until that whole concept of "communities" is dead and buried.
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