UK Politics

[JohnD]

Question 1:
Why is the NHS falling below the standards expected?

Question 2:

When did the Conservatives gain power?

See also

NHS capital investment cuts leave England’s hospitals crumbling | Financial Times

St Mary’s in London is an example of how a longtime lack of spending is being felt across the system

www.ft.com

 

[Roy Bloom]

Lack of funding by governments (educastion, wages, infrastructure, etc).
Lack of staff, (partially caused by lack of funding) , migration policies, poor long term planning, system that is doomed to failure in the modern world, lack of the willingness to keep up with demands (policy).

I don't suppose there is one major reason, and all proffered reasons will have a political bias, or be accused of being politically biased.

But your first question is not designed as an open, genuine inquiring question for discussion. Your second question makes that obvious.
i doubt it's possible to have an unbiased discussion.

But I do share your concerns, and occasionally, your political choices.

Maybe there is an argument for paying for medical assistance. In that, if you pay for it, you're more likely to more picky about your treatment, and more likely to ask relevant questions.

 

[Vinty]

Maybe there is an argument for paying for medical assistance. In that, if you pay for it, you're more likely to more picky about your treatment, and more likely to ask relevant questions

Paying privately only allows you to jump the queue.
The doctors and nurses who treat you have probably worked or still work in NHS.
As for asking the 'relevent questions', if you are having an extremely complicated procedure carried out, how would you know what questions to ask.?
At the end of the day it is down to trust.

This clown moonlighted between the NHS and private sector.
When mutilating, he doesn't seem to drawn a distinction between NHS and private.

How breast surgeon ‘mutilated’ hundreds of women over two decades

Ian Paterson would perform unnecessary mastectomies, leaving some patients at higher risk of breast cancer

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Mottie]

The doctors and nurses who treat you have probably worked or still work in NHS.

All the consultants that Mrs Mottie transcribes for work mornings for NHS then go off to private hospitals in the afternoon.

 

[Mottie]

Why is the NHS falling below the standards expected?

Tories? Brexit? Boris? Gotta be one of those, otherwise why would you start a thread?

 

[Roy Bloom]

Paying privately only allows you to jump the queue.
The doctors and nurses who treat you have probably worked or still work in NHS.
As for asking the 'relevent questions', if you are having an extremely complicated procedure carried out, how would you know what questions to ask.?
At the end of the day it is down to trust.

I had in mind when/if there was only private treatment available.
So the queue jumping, p/t in NHS and improved communication between the doctors and patients, because patients would be able to shop around, and doctors would be subject to market forces.

 

[noseall]

Tories?

Correct (by the looks of it). It's certainly not very flattering on the Tories, that's for sure.

 

[Vinty]

patients would be able to shop around, and doctors would be subject to market forces

So patients go to the NHS shop and don't like what they see, then they go to the private shop and then pay to be operated on by people from the NHS shop whom they didn't like in the first place.
Explain how market forces make people healthier

 

[charliegolf]

So patients go to the NHS shop and don't like what they see, then they go to the private shop and then pay to be operated on by people from the NHS shop whom they didn't like in the first place.
Explain how market forces make people healthier

No, people who didn't like the length of the NHS queue can go to the private (much shorter) queue and be operated on by people whose queue they didn't like in the first place. Accuracy is important.

 

[Odds]

No, people who didn't like the length of the NHS queue can go to the private (much shorter) queue and be operated on by people whose queue they didn't like in the first place. Accuracy is important.

Nobody will like the length of the queue: waiting lists run to years for some procedures and numbers are at an all-time high. Even AI will struggle to assist staff in speeding things up.

 

[Roy Bloom]

So patients go to the NHS shop and don't like what they see, then they go to the private shop and then pay to be operated on by people from the NHS shop whom they didn't like in the first place.
Explain how market forces make people healthier

I made it clear that my comments were in a hypothetical situation when only private treament was available.
There was no NHS/private mix in my hypothetical scenario.

I had in mind when/if there was only private treatment available.
So the queue jumping, p/t in NHS and improved communication between the doctors and patients, because patients would be able to shop around, and doctors would be subject to market forces.

 

[JohnD]

I made it clear that my comments were in a hypothetical situation when only private treament was available.
There was no NHS/private mix in my hypothetical scenario.

Unrealistic

 

[motorbiking]

1 people living longer
2 medical interventions are getting better but also expensive
3 the country has grown and there are lots of people coming here for free treatment.
4 we have a legacy of expensive financial arrangements introduced decades ago that cost a fortune
5 people expecting sex changes on the NHS
6 better diagnosis means more treatable outcomes
7 we are fat and eat too much sugar
8 people still drink, smoke and take too many drugs
9 we don’t exercise enough.
10 we prefer to have surgery rather than go on diets.

 

[ajohn]

All a bit sad really. We pay and get what is now a downgraded service in a number of respects. The OP graph shows that some effort was made to invest more in the service. In part that related to too much use of obsolete equipment.

There is also a degree of stealth privatisation - various things put out to private companies. More to come and some use is already being made of one aspect of it - put work out to the private sector to use any of their spare capacity and pay them. These will also pay corporation tax, dividends and etc.

An interesting fact
HMRC provides an illustrative guide to the direct impact of tax changes on revenues, which shows that: a 1p increase in the basic rate of income tax would raise £5.5bn in 2022/23 (0.2% of GDP), and a 1p increase in the higher rate would raise £1.3bn in 2022/23 (0.1% of GDP);1
A 1% increase in Class 1 national insurance contributions would raise £4.3bn in 2022/23 (0.2% of GDP); and. A 1p increase in the rate of VAT would raise £6.7bn in 2022–3 (0.3% of GDP)
A few people seem to think NI pays for the NHS, LOL. The fact that it comes out of general taxation makes budgeting tricky.
It might be interesting to compare this

https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/UK-real-gdp-55-22-web.png.webp

with hospital bed count and nhs services etc also population increase.

Lots of people will find they need the NHS at some point and when they think about cancer recovery rates and whole load of aspects they may really wonder about it all.

 

[ajohn]

1 people living longer

Yes and no as it still depends on living standards, There has been an increase in certain cohorts. Interesting fact if thouse that still tend to suffer in this respect they wouldn't if they received more income. Then there is the middling cohort who basically one way or the other are stupid. They still cost to fix and age tends to set the degree of treatment they may recieve.

LOL Your we's suggest those include you as well.