Planners, like Solicitors tend to make general, non committal and vague ascertions. They use "engineering works", along with "operational development" and "material alteration" so that it covers lots of things and you can't otherwise reject their allegations as would be possible of they were too specific.
Unauthorised engineering operations on a PD
- Thread starter calara
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Their vague language means you can’t know if you’ve done something wrong. We totally believed we had followed all the rules, did what was required and weren’t ever trying to deceive or cheat the Council. Now we are going to have lost a lot of money which we saved really hard for and then spend even more (which we don’t have to spend) doing something we don’t want to do to put it back, and the end result this complainer gets what? Our garden filled in with a pile of soil and somebody else parking in front of our garden everyday in front of a useless 1k dropped kerb!! So frustrating. I don’t know if the council will attempt a compromise with us or just say tough put it back.
So had the meeting today with the planners that sent the letter, and from what I can gather a ruling changed in June that means any work to put in a hard standing deeper than a railway sleeper classes as engineering. Even though our work was done over a year before this, we can be served an enforcement because it’s not over 4 years. And it seems the person complained because they don’t like how it looks and it means they can’t park as easily on our road! Other bigger and higher drives aren’t being prosecuted because they apparently got a letter from the council saying it was ok, which we didn’t know you could do or needed. So it looks like retrospective planning will be refused, appeal will be refused, a few hard saved thousands wasted and a rubbish front garden (because I will be putting no effort in to make it anymore than a pile of soil) is going to be the end result.
Thank you to everybody that offered help it was really appreciated. It now seems it is down to some men in a council office and some councillors to take away our drive and our savings (it will take value from our house) and see how far away from my house I will have to park and carry my child. Gutted.
Thank you to everybody that offered help it was really appreciated. It now seems it is down to some men in a council office and some councillors to take away our drive and our savings (it will take value from our house) and see how far away from my house I will have to park and carry my child. Gutted.
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What about the less expensive advice from some random bloke on the internet?
So have they actually issued enforcement proceedings or are they just threatening that they could if they wanted too?
Any excavations deeper than a railway sleeper constitutes engineering works! That is complete and utter bullshit, I would be very surprised if that was upheld at appeal.
By the way, since when did depth of excavations start getting measured in units of railway sleepers. Will Building Control be asking for foundations to be 5 railway sleepers deep? What orientation of railways sleeper? Depth, height or length? Bloody nonsense.
He basically said we can apply for planning and go that route or he will decide if he will enforce but basically implied he would because of this new ruling and mentioned street scene (people want our section of road to look nice - though we aren’t listed or conservation so how we were supposed to know this when we did it(!)- which apparently doesn’t include our drive but random doors, rotted wood and giant tractor tyres are good to go!) and then said if we go planning route it is £206 (plus surveys and drawings) if we go to enforcement it is a fee of £900+ to appeal or apply I got a bit lost, so much info was thrown at us. If we ignored it he said fine of up to £20k. So the only route we can afford is planning application and hope, or just fill it in now and give up.
£900 fee to appeal an enforcement notice? That's news to me. https://www.gov.uk/appeal-enforcement-notice
Does that mean your driveway was done before this change was intoduced?
If you are forced to appeal or remove the drive, perhaps with a bit of publicity, you could start a crowdfunding page.
Who's to say how much depth of soil was removed, or when it was removed?
Sounds to me like you've got a junior planning officer trying to scare you in to making the problem go away because your neighbour is being such a pain in the *ss.
Cheapest & easiest approach is to do nothing and wait. How can it be in the public interest to enforce if the surrounding drives are worse.
The question is whether you can handle the stress of waiting.
Sounds to me like you've got a junior planning officer trying to scare you in to making the problem go away because your neighbour is being such a pain in the *ss.
Cheapest & easiest approach is to do nothing and wait. How can it be in the public interest to enforce if the surrounding drives are worse.
The question is whether you can handle the stress of waiting.
Yes the ruling changed in June this year we did driveway May last year so over a year before, but they said it didn’t matter they had 4 years to do enforcement in.
We asked if we put some soil back and sloped the drive would they accept that like a neighbour has done? Nope nope nope. There was no room for manoeuvre, or compromise no support for our situation really. Just wanted bureaucratic ball to start rolling. Enforcement or us applying for planning.
If we wait it out what happens? They enforce, we appeal, win or lose. Where does the £900+ fee come in, I got a bit lost.
We asked if we put some soil back and sloped the drive would they accept that like a neighbour has done? Nope nope nope. There was no room for manoeuvre, or compromise no support for our situation really. Just wanted bureaucratic ball to start rolling. Enforcement or us applying for planning.
If we wait it out what happens? They enforce, we appeal, win or lose. Where does the £900+ fee come in, I got a bit lost.
Does that mean all driveways built between June 2014 and June 2018, could retrospectively contravene planning.
Its weird that rules can be applied retrospectively. Or are they saying the rule has always applied but now they are enforcing it, or applying a different interpretation.
I seem to remember there is a permitted development forum, cant remember the name though..........
If I remember correctly it was a lot of info in this meeting, he said 20 years ago it was ruled building work to put in hard standing was all included in PD but this was appealed in June 2018. And that 20 yr old interpretation was classed as incorrect and building to put in hard standing not covered. So yes I suppose in theory all drives done more than a sleeper deep in last 4 years could potentially be enforced. But of 11 driveways done in last 2 years on my road, we are the only ones being written to despite 2 of them having walls 2 storeys high with new access steps and another 2 having 1 storey high walls, and all but a handful having permeable surfaces by the looks. Our wall 1m approx. This just sucks.
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