Vaillant 242 Combi (Beyond Economical Repair?)

[dfarry]

I'm just pulling your leg mate, I know you will probably be right and i would not expect you to be able to just pick up and do my job either.

I'm abit concerned the filling loop was left in place though...makes me wonder how many other corners were cut by our fitter.

 

[Agile]

Its the user who is meant to remove the filling loop when not in use.

What work do you do?

Tony

 

[dfarry]

Hmmm.. OK...I'm going to really take a good look at this - I might even take some pictures (not very interesting but might help clarify what is what...)

I work in IT...small company so I pretty much have to cover most area's - a bit of a jack of all trades really but it keeps the work varied.

I am into bikes as well so I am fairly handy with a spanner... I can change my tyres myself.... now there's a sure fire way to make money (mobile motorcycle tyre fitting)

I do alot of DIY in my house myself... call me tight but if I can do it myself I will and save the money... more of necessity a few years back - not so bad now with at least a little bit cash in the bank.

I quite enjoy finding out about stuff like this.... I use a lot of different forums too so quite happy posting questions and obviously helping wherever i can.

 

[Agile]

We are all still waiting to see if your filling loop is leaking!!!

I suppose your combi is the boiler equivalent of the 4 Mhz 286 !!!

Trouble with IT is that its so complicated that no single person can have more that an overview and detailed knowledge of a very small area.

I would love to be able to find out the purpose of all the files in both Windows ­® and the AOL operating systems but they dont seem to be listed anywhere I can access.

Tony

 

[dfarry]

Hahaha... well you know what you are not to far astray on the 386... back when we had it installed (end of 1994) I think I had just managed to move mountains where I worked so that I could have a Apricot 486 33mhz DX2, a few months after I got a 100mhz 486 DX4.

My first own PC was a Pentium II 233mhz Gateway and that cost.....wait for it........

OVER £2000!!!

PC/Computer technology has come a long way in just 10 years that's for sure.

Yeah the filesystem in windows 95 and later is a illogical mess really... I suppose once you are used to using it (abit like fitting secondary heat exchangers) it become's second nature. I never liked AOL though.... the fact they provide their own internet browser is a big no no for me as I prefer to use INternet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox.

I won't be able to give you a answer on the filling loop until the weekend, it is behind our fitted kitchen cupboards (that I fitted!)... there is a hole (thoughtfully cut by me) to allow the tap to be turned on and off but not much else.... Luckily I can remove a few screws and hopefully the carcass should pull out in one piece leaving all the pipework visible...... HOPEFULLY!

 

[BoxBasher]

The other problem wit hthe filling loop being left in place:

If you do have a passing valve then there is always the possibility that the CH system can push water back into your domestic (drinking) water system. Always a bad idea when you take into account the stuff that is inside heating systems.

 

[dfarry]

Yup I realise that BB....unfortunately it's a prime example of one of those things that you forget about and don't look at until a problem arises.

 

[ChrisR]

Mah forst home computer was an Acorn Atom. 8 bit 1Mhz processor and 2 kilobytes of memory. But I knew what all the chips did, and where the systems calls were, and dis-assembled them to see what they did.

Then I got this thing called a "floppy disc", and had to write a device driver for it...
Thank god we never saw this - we'd have needed wooly jumpers:

 

[dfarry]

haha... I can just remember the Atom but more so the Electron and BBC micro's (that I used at school)...they were like the rolls royce of computing at the time as PC were very much still business machines and cost a fortune..

My first computer (rather than PC) was a Sinclair Spectrum ZX48...great little machine...very common - crap graphics but then again it was 1983 - I was fortunate enough to persaude my parents to by me the thermo paper printer too, the quality was terrible but the fact you could print something out amazed me.

 

[Agile]

You only need to remove one end of the filling loop and you may be able to do that through your hole.

The filling loop is unlikely to leak back into the cold water because there is a plumbing diode in the circuit but that can leak too!

The AOL now seems to need access to IE6 for some reason to help it to work. You can use IE6 on top of the AOL and quite a lot of people do it.

What I find so frustrating is so many files, particularly DLL which seem to be there but always empty!

Tony

 

[dfarry]

Hi Tony.... all...

OK had a few hours on it... this morning...

First up decided to drain the whole thing down... no particular reason... just because I could and was planning to dismantle the pressure relief valve and perhaps secondary exchanger (decided not to in the end).

Having drained the system I first checked the filling loop... before removing this I decide to restrict the flow of main water by almost shutting off the stop cock...

First Problem - Stop cock stuck... after some heaving with a adjustable spanner with a srew driver through the end eye for leverage I managed to close a touch - however it was not possible to shut the water off completely. It really needs a new stop cock... not sure how easy that will be to do.. <grrrrrrrrrrrr> (the house was built in the 60's so the stop cock is knocking on)

I removed the filling loop hose directly above the valve tap... there is no leakge from the valve, I then increased the mains pressure - again completely dry - so that's good and points to the internal leak, possibly in the secondary exchanger as to why the pressure is increasing. Also only a small trickle of water leaked out the filling pipe when it was removed so the diode you mentioned must be OK I guess.

Next stop the pressure release valve, I had planned to dismantle this to see if any internal washer etc. had perished. The PRV can be dismantle from the end (where the plastic tape is) but then I noticed the spring and decide it might not be a good idea to take that out and not be able to get it in again.

The space around the boiler is quite confined so at this point I decided I had had enough and decide not to start dismantling the secondary exchanger pipework.

I refilled the system and bleed the radiators, I also adjusted the cold water flow into the boiler to try to increase the temperature once the water had been heated. This does help a little though at the cost of flow rate.

The DHW temperature still fluctuates and the burners light for around 10 seconds and then stop for a further 10 seconds before starting again..

I had another go at the DHW temperature selector but that is completely stuck (I assume by scale).

One thing I noticed when using hot water is that the boiler pressure with fluctuate as well... the dial seems to "flick" up and down so I don't know how reliable that is. When the boiler lights for hot water the pressure gauge needle increases by about 0.2 bar but it does not hold a steady position or increase at a constant rate. When the burners stop and the hot water tap is closed, the boiler makes a "click" noise then the pressure gauge needle drops to it's original position.

The outside drain pipe is still leaking so it's safe to say the PRV is knackered I think...

So all in all... a few hours work and I acheived nothing worthwhile - give me a folder full of DLL's any day!
Tony, if you fix my boiler and I'll fix your PC!!

 

[Agile]

OK bring your boiler to NW London and I will sort it out for you while you do my PC.

I warn you that its in quite a state as Chris will confirm. Its mostly all down to AOL but I dont want my email store lost!!!

Disconnect filling loop and see if the pressure still goes up. This is often caused by the user not fully closing the valve.

Tony

 

[dfarry]

or...... you could bring your base unit, minus all the other bits (mouse, keyboard, monitor etc..) to my place and i could completely reinstall Windows.... XP? for you fresh plus plenty of other software to keep you busy, whilst you fix my boiler.

As for AOL, I would never let that near my PC's - I think it is horrible to use, but I suppose like anything if you are used to it. Must admit I don't know how the AOL mail configuration works - I assumed the mails were all web based, if not then there will be probably a single mail file that just needs backing up and then restored after the latest version of AOL has been installed.

The filling loop is definately closed, I might check the pressure tomorrow as you suggest... at the moment the heating is on so the pressure is fluctuating anway...it is about 2bar at the moment.

 

[Agile]

As for AOL, I would never let that near my PC's - I think it is horrible to use, but I suppose like anything if you are used to it. Must admit I don't know how the AOL mail configuration works - I assumed the mails were all web based, if not then there will be probably a single mail file that just needs backing up and then restored after the latest version of AOL has been installed.

The advantage of AOL is its reliability is very high and its been in business since the internet started where all of my friends have to keep changing their email addresses every few years as their ISPs go bust. I have had Tony Glazier st AOL for about 20 years

When reloading AOL last time it deleted the saved mail files of about 5 Mb which should not have happened. They are not easily accessible and not designed to be backed up routinely. Since I have three years of emails there is a lot of important stuff there which i might need.

Watch your boiler pressure and see if it still increases. I doubt it because the filling loop is now off!

Tony

MOD 2

gent's would you care to meander over to software with this

 

[dfarry]

Yup boiler pressure is still increasing, yesterday evening (having been set earlier to 1 bar) it was up to over 2 bar and the temperature was zero. I am starting to wonder now if the gauge or sender is faulty?

It seems like the leaking from boiler via the PRV has got worse too.... it's er strange how the boiler is almost refilling what it is losing.... perhaps it is smart than I thought

So this is now one for the professionals..... I give up with it.

Tony, be worth you buying a cheap domain with an email account... they are not very expensive and at least your mail account can follow you around... looks more professional too. If you ever move from AOL you wont have to worry about telling everyone etc...

I think [email protected] would be perfect.

Personally I use Yahoo mail - always have done and just like the fact I can easily access my mail, bookmarks....etc. from any machine, anywhere.