Voltage drop from leisure battery to lighting

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I recently bought a semi-converted-to-camper van and am trying to understand the wiring....

Something ain't right! Multimeter reading 12v ish at leisure battery, but only 1.5v at an internal light...

Wiring all hidden behind lining..

Anyone know how best to proceed....?
 
That 1.5v may be a phantom voltage.
Best way would be to check continuity from both ends.
Thanks. I'll try that in the first instance...

It looks like there's no earth running back to the leisure battery, so assume they have just earthed through the body /chassis.... Looks like trouble ahead!
 
Something ain't right! Multimeter reading 12v ish at leisure battery, but only 1.5v at an internal light...

Likely, that is just volts drop, due to resistance in the wire used. Volts drop, at some level, is unavoidable in cable, but has a much greater effect at very low voltages. Many people, specify cable sizes, based on the current involved in the circuit, but fail to even consider volts drop, and the lower the voltage to start with, the more of a problem is can be. Which why HGV's, because of the longer cabling runs, use 24v.

If the lamp is disconnected, does the measured voltage rise, to close to the battery voltage? Is the lamp an LED or a conventional bilb? The lower the current of the lamp, the less the volts drop, so replacing them with LED's, reduces the volts drop massively.
 
Proper leisure vehicle habitation wiring doesn't use the chassis/metalwork as the 'earth' return, but separate wires for each. Wiring colour coding is commonplace, along with circuit diagrams.

There may, of course, be lights fed from the vehicle battery that use the chassis 'earth' in addition to habitation lighting.

A fully charged lead acid battery will be around 12.7-12.8 Volts with no load.

There is likely to be a system for charging the leisure battery as well as the vehicle battery and a relay system to turn off all habitation circuits when on the move (if done properly) which may, perhaps, account for this issue (if stuck in the wrong mode)?
 
As @Rodders53 most likely the habitation unit has poor connection on a fuse or similar, on charge voltage can be as high as 14.8 volt with stage charger, alternator 13.8, of charge 12.8 down to 11.5 at which point often relays will drop out, so standard LED bulb designed to work 10 - 30 volt, so volt drop is rarely a problem as the bulbs are designed for a massive voltage variation.

How ever I have seen domestic 12 volt bulbs used in caravans, boats etc. In which case volt drop will matter.

So poor connections and volt drop very diffrent.
 
How ever I have seen domestic 12 volt bulbs used in caravans, boats etc. In which case volt drop will matter.

I'm not sure what you might mean by 'domestic 12v' lamps? 12v, is 12v.

Mine came from the factory, fitted with 12 x 10w halogen adjustable spots, around the peripheries, then more in the centre. I soon replaced those halogens with LED version, rated 12v 2w, and for a few reasons.... The heat from the halogens, on the back of your head, was uncomfortable, the heat a current, was oxidising the lamp terminals, the volts drop, with a few turned on, and finally the consumption, when on battery only. The LED's run cool to the touch, and provide a better light, as well as solving the other issues.
 
This typical caravan bulb is described as
MR16 21 LED Spotlight style Halogen replacement LED bulbs are suitable for both 12v and 24v DC systems whilst maintaining consistent brightness during charging and load fluctuations.
and
Specifications for MR16-21L
  • MR16 21 LED Spotlight style bulb
  • 21 x SMD2835 (new type) LEDs
  • Lumens: 353L (Warm White) or 365L (Cool White)
  • Colour Temperature: 2730K WW or 6440K CW
  • Wattage: 2.8W
  • Voltage: 10v - 30v DC
  • Current draw (at 12.7v): 240ma (0.24A)
  • Approximate Equivalent to 35W Tungsten bulb
  • 120 degree wide angle beam
  • Dimensions: 50mm diameter by 45mm deep
  • EMI free (No electrical interference)
  • Features: Internally PROTECTED against Voltage Spikes and FUSED for extra safety
  • This is very different to a MR16 used from an AC supply, the main thing of course is it is DC, but also 130 lumen per watt, where the AC types can be as low at 75 lumen per watt. So may be in the same MR16 package design, but nothing like the bulb we would use from a switched mode power supply in our houses.
Firms like Bedazzled specialise in lighting for boats and caravans, you will not get these bulbs off the shelf in Tesco. The voltage is the main problem for a bulb designed for houses, they are designed for 12 volt, not 11.5 to 14.8 volt found in caravans and boats, even the old halogen bulbs were designed to take 14.8 volt from the stage charger found in many boats and caravans.

BS 7671:2008 said:
Under normal service conditions the voltage at the terminals of any fixed current-Using equipment should be greater
than the lower limit corresponding to the British Standard relevant to the equipment. Where the equipment is not the
subject of a British Standard, the voltage at the terminals should be such as not to impair the safe functioning of that
equipment. In the absence of precise data a voltage drop of 0.8 V from the power supply to the equipment may be
allowed.

If a supply is obtained from a generator or from a low voltage supply via a transformer/rectifier unit, the extra-low.
voltage at the output terminals of the supply unit should be maintained between 11 V minimum and 14 V maximum with applied loads varying from 0.5 A minimum up to the maximum rated load of the supply unit. Over the same
load range, alternating voltage ripple should not exceed 1.2 V peak to peak.
It would seem the writers do not know how a stage charger works, or even the old dynamo. The typical stage charger would work in three stages, 1) The max output of the charger, until the voltage reached a set figure, 2) Then hold at that set voltage until the current drops to a set figure 2) hold at a lower voltage either for set time, or until the voltage dips below a set figure to restart the charging sequence. For a lead acid battery flooded the voltage was normally 14.8 volt, and for valve regulated lead acid 14.4 volt, also know as absorbed glass mat. The current for a 300 Ah battery set would be around 3.8 amp, which can cause a problem as if lights take over 3.8 amp then the rate will never drop, so often also a timer so should that happen the volts will still drop.

The better system was to pulse charge, and the decay rate after each pulse is used to work out charge rate, this can mean an even higher charge voltage, in the main used with alternator to battery charging units, which can charge at 120 amp, where the boat has two alternators feeding one battery bank.

This is mainly boats, the problem is a lead acid battery is slow to charge, the batteries used with solar panels and the like can be recharged in 1.5 hours, but the lead acid normally will take 8 hours or more to complete the charge, so the narrow boat people would look for a shore charging point once a month to condition the battery, in other words fully recharge it.

The old Lucas dynamo two bobbin regulator was set to 16 volt open circuit voltage, charging the battery it would never hit that voltage, but I still have the Lucas workshop manuals, showing how to set up the RB106 and RB108 regulators.
 
Thank you for enlightening me.
In my case I suspect an insufficient earth is to blame. It appears they have used the vehicle body. I'm going to rewire back to leisure battery negative.....
 
Thank you for enlightening me.
In my case I suspect an insufficient earth is to blame. It appears they have used the vehicle body. I'm going to rewire back to leisure battery negative.....

On normal road vehicles, using the body as the earth return connection is quite normal, it's usually a very low resistance path, with so much metalwork. Leisure batteries, are normally wired, not using the body for the earth return, and so first, you need determine whether the leisure battery circuit, uses the body, or a separate wire for the earth return.

In your case, you need to determine whether the volts drop is in the positive supply, or the negative, which you suggest may be via the body.

The way to work out which is the issue (could be a bit of both)....

1. Turn the light on.
2. Using a meter, measure the voltage between the battery +ve terminal, and the +ve terminal at the light.
3. Using a meter, measure the voltage between the battery -ve terminal, and the -ve terminal at the light.

The two values determined above, will give you a clue as to where most of the voltage is being lost, due to resistance within the circuit.
 
If the inernal light is the only thing you are having a problem with then measure across the fitting terminals with the light switched on then measure from each terminal to an exposed part of the van body. If you have no volts at either place the do the same at the switch that controls it. Again if you don't get 12v to earth at one of the switch contacts you have a problem with the supply rather than a poor earth, although that is the most common problem with campervan wiring.
 
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