It never works in the first place. Jammer proof.
Alternatively they might use inertial guidance in addition, as do some western munitions.
War Machine
- Thread starter Odds
- Start date
Alternatively they might use inertial guidance in addition, as do some western munitions.
Sponsored Links
News that the Netherlands is sending the first batch of a projected 24 F-16s to Ukraine should be tempered by an admission that they don't have enough pilots to fly them. According to Politico, Ukraine says it has 30 pilots who are eligible to start training in the U.S. immediately. Yet the Biden administration has told Kyiv it lacks the school seats in its Arizona-based program to accept more than 12 pilot trainees at a time, according to three people with direct knowledge of the request. Two other facilities in Denmark and Romania have a similar issue with available training spots.
Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands and Belgium plan to ship more than 60 U.S.-made F-16 jets to Kyiv this summer. Ukrainians argue that the ability to fly more F-16s will help Kyiv push back Russian forces from the frontlines in places such as Kharkiv, where Moscow has advanced in recent weeks. Yet the U.S. has said it does not expect the jets to be a game-changer on the battlefield.
At the moment the frontline is stale, mate.
Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands and Belgium plan to ship more than 60 U.S.-made F-16 jets to Kyiv this summer. Ukrainians argue that the ability to fly more F-16s will help Kyiv push back Russian forces from the frontlines in places such as Kharkiv, where Moscow has advanced in recent weeks. Yet the U.S. has said it does not expect the jets to be a game-changer on the battlefield.
At the moment the frontline is stale, mate.
Lack of progress is the choice of Western nations.
Their policy throughout the war has been to provide Ukraine with sufficient resources to keep the war going, but not enough to win it.
You could say that, although America's reluctance to be drawn into direct confrontation with Russia has a lot to do with it. Those F-16s would've made a difference in last years counter-offensive but can only be effective in a defensive strategy now. This next six months will be crucial for their chances and it adds pressure to the political situation as Hungary takes over EU presidency and Orban presses for a ceasefire.
Sponsored Links
... they've already trained the first batch of pilots who will be flying the current batch of F16s
Yes, but the point is they're in a minority to the number of aircraft required. American advisors reckon they'll need at least one squadron to operate around the capital in order to shoot down cruise missiles and drones, but no closer to the border where they're vulnerable to Russian defence systems that'll easily shoot 'em out the sky. They'll be up to full strength by the end of 2025 but that's a long time to make a difference when the situation could change before Christmas.
No, because Denmark trained around 20, France is providing training, we are doing some of the basics, the US has already graduated 12, I think Belgium might also be doing some etc. etc.
Do they need more trained pilots, yes, always, but you don't know how many pilots they have.
No, i do not...but the Americans, i assume, do know and their reports inform the opinion that Ukraine is in for a tough old time of it this year. The Russian economy is on a far higher war plane than the Ukrainians can match. It's all well and good to train these pilots but combat experience is a much harder level to achieve. Conscription is also proving more challenging, especially when the Russians have a surplus of manpower to throw into battle.
JohnD is correct. Interesting as I mentioned the fact that the US's aim was to bring Russia to it's knees with an extended war early on and few accepted it. I was effectively quoting a comment by the US Defence Sec and it also related to the initial supply of anti tank stuff. Win with those?
These days these types of aircraft can only really be used for long range attacks via missile launches. They can be used defensively - shooting down drones, bet that is a bit like dogfights against something that doesn't shoot back - yet or hit missiles but other stuff can do that. Ukraine wants more of those and it's very expensive and can be taken out cheaply. If Gazans had kit like Russia has Israel would loose loads of aircraft unless they took the radar systems out first via missile designed to hit these. Ukraine has already lost some. These can from reports often be repaired. Depends on how hard and where they are hit.
Things like F16's have another problem. Israel got clever once. They used 3 sorties a day when the Arabs used 2. Mind you a pre emptive strike took out loads of Arab stuff anyway. Between sorties they are being maintained. People are needed to do that. I did get to talk to a US forces person that does that on a US base here. As often with jobs in this area he was disappoint about what his job title meant in practice. It was just box swapping. The boxes are needed. Also various trained people, I doubt if the training needs are that severe but some number of people are needed. Not just pilots.
The US account for this on all of their kit. They see it as ready for action providing it can be used within 24hrs. War stuff pushes technology often to the limits and all sorts of jobs may need doing.
That excuse was used by von Falkenhayn at Verdun but i think the state of the American, UK and EU economy has much to do with the current state of battle in Ukraine. It's damned expensive and many countries are being asked to stump up the goods during an unsettled time. Ukraine needs more weapons for the aircraft but who will cough up their share? Will the West pour more weapons into Ukraine at the expense of their own security? I doubt it.
Often now that is augmented by adding homing. Early cruise missile stuff could use imaging to solve some aspects. Pass if that idea is still around.
That reminds me of a World War Two wheeze where the boffins tried dropping a 'pigeon-guided' bomb - i sh!t you not...
Cameron pointed it all out rather clearly due to the money hold up when he visited the US. He pointed out how much money they would be throwing away if they stopped. Actually Ukraine has hit all major economies rather severely. Oil, gas and a number of spin offs from that and other areas as well. They were firmly tied in to the global economy. One of Putin's successes. He does have others compared with the Soviets and things that happened after that collapsed.
A possible side effect. US dept levels are the highest ever. 125% GDP. That level would usually indicate a country has problems. It's climbing and has been for a while.
Russia. They have done something similar to what the UK did in WW2. Put the supply problems over to a bloke that wont take no for an answer. It can be used to get around what could be called managerial problems. It did in the UK. In Russia's case it's an economics type bloke to tie the various aspects up. Gov depts the lot including supply. Supply - it seems he has said meet your targets or I'll have you locked up. There is an interest in more weapons development also actual supply not just feeding existing kit.
One thing that the US and others do seem to be sticking to is supplying weapon to use against other NATO members. It's verboten. Seems it's fine if they are occupying some place or the other but only in the occupied areas.
Sponsored Links
