Water Pipe Leaking In 2 Different Places Under Kitchen Floor?

[Gorguruga]

Last week the kitchen electrics went out and electrician came to repair, discovered damp in the wall and had to remove one of the sockets completely due to the damp. This wall is at the side of the house where the kitchen window, kitchen door and the fusebox, as well as one remaining socket, are along the same wall.

We noticed 2 separate pools of water on the kitchen floor over past few days. The 1st pool is coming from near the kitchen door on the right side of the wall. The 2nd pool is about two meters away, coming from left side of the same wall.

At first thought the drain outside the kitchen door must be blocked and must have caused pools and damp socket by slowly overflowing and running along the wall in both directions. I tried to unblock the drain but the pools still showed up the next time I turned the tap on for a few minutes. Had a closer look and the water doesn't seem to be overflowing from the exterior drain. 1st pool seems to be coming from just at the bottom of the door, through the wooden frame/door step and the 2nd pool seems to be seeping straight through the bottom edge of the skirting?

 

[Newboy]

A photograph of the affected area would be useful - from a distance showing the complete wall

 

[Burnerman]

Sad to say it sounds like your kitchen waste drain has parted, probably at a joint somewhere......are you able to trace its route?
John

 

[Gorguruga]

Small Kitchen so the angle was a little difficult..

100_2621 EDIT

• Gorguruga
• 3 Oct 2015

1st pool near door

1st pool

• Gorguruga
• 3 Oct 2015

2nd pool near fusebox/cupboard

2nd pool

• Gorguruga
• 3 Oct 2015

Exterior view {1st pool is on the left by the door, 2nd pool is on the right side of the window, coming from the skirting board. The drain is right beside the door behind the bamboo plant.}

exterior view

• Gorguruga
• 3 Oct 2015

 

[Burnerman]

As the water appears so quickly and in such volume, I can only assume that one of the pipe bends has come adrift, for reasons unknown......presumably the pipe is behind the skirting, then turns and exits through the wall?
When you say you tried to clear the drain, did you shove some rods up it, perchance?
John

 

[Gorguruga]

As the water appears so quickly and in such volume, I can only assume that one of the pipe bends has come adrift, for reasons unknown......presumably the pipe is behind the skirting, then turns and exits through the wall?
When you say you tried to clear the drain, did you shove some rods up it, perchance?
John

I did try shoving a (multipurpose) incense stick down the drain to help clear it. There were quite a lot of bamboo leaves collected along the wall outside, and in the drain itself. I don't know if that might have something to do with the problem? After I cleared the leaves and the drain (with baking soda and vinegar) the leaks still happen.

I'm not sure of the rooting of the pipework but was hoping that it's behind the skirting instead of underneath the tiling. The water does exit directly into the drain from the wall but can't quite see the pipe because of the roof drain blocking the way. I'm guessing you're right about the pipework but a strange thing is that the 1st pool of water is actually forming past the drain, coming from underneath the door whereas I would have thought the pipe wouldn't extend that far? That's what made me initially think that maybe the pipe is under the tiling instead of behind the skirting or am I way off base?

That volume of water in the photo is an example of the pooling after I left the tap on for 5 minutes straight. When the tap is used sparingly it doesn't seem to pool the water in the same way although there are still some traces of water showing up.

 

[Burnerman]

The leak is above the tiles.....it wouldn't pool the way it is otherwise.
Can you measure where the drain exits the wall and compare it with your floor, just to confirm?
The decking is in the way for us to see here.
I'd have that skirting off sharpish, I think....its easy enough to replace.
John

 

[Gorguruga]

Cheers John, really appreciate your feedback. Here's a bit of problem with taking the skirting off (other than the fact I've never done it before). When the electrician came around the other day and removed one of the sockets, he also rewired the other socket using self-adhesive electrical trunking which now sits on top of the skirting board. I'm guessing I'm going to have to remove the new trunking first (and the electrical wire) in order to take off the skirting?

Can just about make out the trunking above the skirting in this pic:

100_2621 EDIT

• Gorguruga
• 3 Oct 2015

The electrical socket is just hiding behind that towel on the chair.

 

[dilalio]

Here's what I'd do...

Run taps into kitchen sink but trap it there with plug. Leave for 30 mins to confirm its not from hot & cold feeds or connections to taps.

Add food dye to water in bowl of sink, then realease to waste.

See if water pools as described above and if it is coloured with food dye.

Try and access waste connections where it enters wall (in kitchen base unit) and where it exits wall (at drain, under decking): see if you can rattle, wobble, move, rotate the pipe by hand.

If you can, try and dig out the wall at that point and remake the lose joins... Preferably with solvent weld fittings.

Eventually, you may need to expose the whole waste run to drain by removing skirting and exposing the route by chopping out! Sometimes has to be done unfortunately... Then replace run with solvent weld if it is push or compression!

It's only filler, wood and paint after all... Don't be sheepish

 

[Burnerman]

The trunking can be prised away from the top of the skirting and if you have a wood chisel or similar, attack the skirting from the corner joint.....it may be nailed on, or stuck with no nails adhesive or whatever.
The fact that the water is coming from where the skirting meets the tile floor has to indicate a fault with the pipe. How far away is the sink?
Has any other work been carried out in that area.....nailing, screwing etc?
A pic of the outside around the deck area could be useful, just so we can see the drain exiting the wall.
John

 

[Razor900]

Think I'd be tempted to see if I could just replace the whole run externally.

 

[dilalio]

Just what I was thinking
Punch a new hole out and put it where it can be rodded

 

[Burnerman]

I'd go for that too...I can't see any reason why it wasn't done that way in the first place.
John

 

[Gorguruga]

Here's what I'd do...

Run taps into kitchen sink but trap it there with plug. Leave for 30 mins to confirm its not from hot & cold feeds or connections to taps.

Add food dye to water in bowl of sink, then realease to waste.

See if water pools as described above and if it is coloured with food dye.

Try and access waste connections where it enters wall (in kitchen base unit) and where it exits wall (at drain, under decking): see if you can rattle, wobble, move, rotate the pipe by hand.

If you can, try and dig out the wall at that point and remake the lose joins... Preferably with solvent weld fittings.

Eventually, you may need to expose the whole waste run to drain by removing skirting and exposing the route by chopping out! Sometimes has to be done unfortunately... Then replace run with solvent weld if it is push or compression!

It's only filler, wood and paint after all... Don't be sheepish

Thanks very much for the info Dilalio, these are really useful tips and I'll be trying the first few steps in about one hour.

About the kitchen base unit, it's on the opposite wall to the leak so could there still be a problem with base unit pipework on the other wall causing the leak to emerge from the wall opposite?

I know one of the housemates has been throwing a clump of ground coffee down the sink, every morning, these past 3 weeks and I was wondering if that might have blocked up the pipe in certain parts causing a pressure build up, pipe expansion and the breach?

 

[dilalio]

If everything is dry where you can see/feel the pipework then the leak will be in the wall and you'll need to expose it or 'kill it' and run a new route from a point where you can get onto it from the sink! Push fits are usually the culprit!